4 ms·

Deleted my message to your og message because you posted this here, but you're basically basing your whole argument on one person in a cable leak. It's not muc

Deleted my message to your og message because you posted this here, but you're basically basing your whole argument on one person in a cable leak. It's not much of a base.

busterarm 4y ago
Lol for you to truly believe this. German officials were still complaining about French spying in the wikileaks cables. France has partically cornered the market on datacenter infrastructure (everything from the racks down...somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 is made by French companies). If you think 300+ years of strategy/tradecraft suddenly ceased functioning 40 years ago (and because why?) you'd be sorely mistaken. It's more likely the case that manned airframe deveopment has been fairly stagnant around the world since the 80s for political/budget reasions (which is true), so you haven't been able to see their blatant wins. France has seemed to keep up with the rest of world in UAV development (Parrot) despite much less investment....
- hikingsimulator 4y ago
  That's not a sound argument, neither a sourced one. Let's take your example, Parrot, it's not because a company can do as good with less than it means it is stolen technology. Has the world over stolen the screw tech in the US technology tree because I can buy it at the hardware store for a cent when one is billed $40 to the US army? That's a wild line of reasoning. [1] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-07-30-vw-18804-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-07-30-vw-18804-...
  - busterarm 4y ago
    I love how people take a throwaway line that's practically an afterthought and discard the bits about their 300+ years of experience doing exactly this. Those bits are well documented and you can go read about them with a cursory google search. But no, my reasoning is WiLd AnD cRaZy. I would say that given France's history, you would have to show me that Parrot _hasn't_ benefited from some level of industrial espionage.
    - hikingsimulator 4y ago
      Asking someone to prove a negative is a terrible way to argue. The French government as we know it did not exist 300 years ago, neither did the modern industrial age.
- palata 4y ago
  Are you suggesting that Parrot has been benefiting from industrial espionage? That's absolutely ridiculous. First, everyone is way behind DJI, that's just a fact. You can buy a DJI drone, open it, inspect it, and still not be able to do a perfect alternative at the same price. Second, some UAV autopilots were written by a couple engineers more than a decade ago, and today there are pretty advanced open source autopilots, with open source protocols and open source apps to control them. I don't know about your other claims, but given the UAV one, I must now doubt them.
defrost 4y ago
Easy enough to widen the base. It was almost an open secret that French Intelligence bugged and monitored first class (and elsewhere) of the TransAtlantic Concorde flights between Europe and the US (and elsewhere). This was, for many years, the prestige fastest travel between the major powers and a honeypot of loose lips by diplomats, politicians, and even senor military staff from many nations. [1] https://www.theregister.com/2015/06/09/french_spied_concorde_passengers/ https://www.theregister.com/2015/06/09/french_spied_concorde...
- hikingsimulator 4y ago
  There is a lot of "could", "might", "reportedly", and "plausible" in this article. I.e. suppositions and assumptions. Nothing backed up. Now, it's a standard practice in security to not discuss security issues and confidential info in a public space like a plane. I'd not be surprised the French goverment would bug the Concorde, but it does not imply at all the supposed extent, ruthlessness and far-reach that the OG poster implies.
  - defrost 4y ago
    > but it does not imply at all the supposed extent, ruthlessness and far-reach thar the OG poster implies. Well perhaps a better understanding of Cold War politics might peel back the cover on how ruthless the French can be. It's a fact that the bulk of the Cold War weapons grade ore was sourced from parts of Africa that were former | current French | Belgian colonies and satelite states, it's well recorded the ongoing destabilisation of local democratic Governments that kept effective control of mineral operations in the hands of principally French companies acting as US proxies in an extensive (at the time) unreported war of resource domination and control. What the French did in New Zealand, planting bombs and killing civilian anti nuclear demonstrators [1] pales in comparison to their actions in Africa and elsewhere. > The sinking of Rainbow Warrior, codenamed Opération Satanique, was a state-sponsored terrorist bombing by the "action" branch of the French foreign intelligence services, the Direction générale de la sécurité extérieure (DGSE), carried out on 10 July 1985. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior
bigDinosaur 4y ago
It's a dramatically better base than 99% of opinions on this.
busterarm 4y ago
The other funny thing is that France being a leading industrial espionage power was also part of the Snowden leaks, which means the NSA believes that this is true, as recently as a decade ago. I don't think you could find a better citation.
- PoignardAzur 4y ago
  There's a pretty big gap between "a leading industrial espionage power" and "the most advanced nation on the planet in terms of industrial espionage." Especially since, again, the Snowden leaks exposed that the NSA was a pretty strong contender for the title.

Deleted my message to your og message because you posted this here, but you're basically basing your whole argument on one person in a cable leak. It's not much of a base.

busterarm 4y ago

Lol for you to truly believe this. German officials were still complaining about French spying in the wikileaks cables. France has partically cornered the market on datacenter infrastructure (everything from the racks down...somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 is made by French companies). If you think 300+ years of strategy/tradecraft suddenly ceased functioning 40 years ago (and because why?) you'd be sorely mistaken. It's more likely the case that manned airframe deveopment has been fairly stagnant around the world since the 80s for political/budget reasions (which is true), so you haven't been able to see their blatant wins. France has seemed to keep up with the rest of world in UAV development (Parrot) despite much less investment....

hikingsimulator 4y ago
That's not a sound argument, neither a sourced one. Let's take your example, Parrot, it's not because a company can do as good with less than it means it is stolen technology. Has the world over stolen the screw tech in the US technology tree because I can buy it at the hardware store for a cent when one is billed $40 to the US army? That's a wild line of reasoning. [1] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-07-30-vw-18804-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-07-30-vw-18804-...
- busterarm 4y ago
  I love how people take a throwaway line that's practically an afterthought and discard the bits about their 300+ years of experience doing exactly this. Those bits are well documented and you can go read about them with a cursory google search. But no, my reasoning is WiLd AnD cRaZy. I would say that given France's history, you would have to show me that Parrot _hasn't_ benefited from some level of industrial espionage.
  - hikingsimulator 4y ago
    Asking someone to prove a negative is a terrible way to argue. The French government as we know it did not exist 300 years ago, neither did the modern industrial age.
palata 4y ago
Are you suggesting that Parrot has been benefiting from industrial espionage? That's absolutely ridiculous. First, everyone is way behind DJI, that's just a fact. You can buy a DJI drone, open it, inspect it, and still not be able to do a perfect alternative at the same price. Second, some UAV autopilots were written by a couple engineers more than a decade ago, and today there are pretty advanced open source autopilots, with open source protocols and open source apps to control them. I don't know about your other claims, but given the UAV one, I must now doubt them.

defrost 4y ago

Easy enough to widen the base. It was almost an open secret that French Intelligence bugged and monitored first class (and elsewhere) of the TransAtlantic Concorde flights between Europe and the US (and elsewhere). This was, for many years, the prestige fastest travel between the major powers and a honeypot of loose lips by diplomats, politicians, and even senor military staff from many nations. [1] https://www.theregister.com/2015/06/09/french_spied_concorde_passengers/ https://www.theregister.com/2015/06/09/french_spied_concorde...

hikingsimulator 4y ago
There is a lot of "could", "might", "reportedly", and "plausible" in this article. I.e. suppositions and assumptions. Nothing backed up. Now, it's a standard practice in security to not discuss security issues and confidential info in a public space like a plane. I'd not be surprised the French goverment would bug the Concorde, but it does not imply at all the supposed extent, ruthlessness and far-reach that the OG poster implies.
- defrost 4y ago
  > but it does not imply at all the supposed extent, ruthlessness and far-reach thar the OG poster implies. Well perhaps a better understanding of Cold War politics might peel back the cover on how ruthless the French can be. It's a fact that the bulk of the Cold War weapons grade ore was sourced from parts of Africa that were former | current French | Belgian colonies and satelite states, it's well recorded the ongoing destabilisation of local democratic Governments that kept effective control of mineral operations in the hands of principally French companies acting as US proxies in an extensive (at the time) unreported war of resource domination and control. What the French did in New Zealand, planting bombs and killing civilian anti nuclear demonstrators [1] pales in comparison to their actions in Africa and elsewhere. > The sinking of Rainbow Warrior, codenamed Opération Satanique, was a state-sponsored terrorist bombing by the "action" branch of the French foreign intelligence services, the Direction générale de la sécurité extérieure (DGSE), carried out on 10 July 1985. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior

bigDinosaur 4y ago

It's a dramatically better base than 99% of opinions on this.

busterarm 4y ago

The other funny thing is that France being a leading industrial espionage power was also part of the Snowden leaks, which means the NSA believes that this is true, as recently as a decade ago. I don't think you could find a better citation.

PoignardAzur 4y ago
There's a pretty big gap between "a leading industrial espionage power" and "the most advanced nation on the planet in terms of industrial espionage." Especially since, again, the Snowden leaks exposed that the NSA was a pretty strong contender for the title.