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Nice to see someone taking privacy a little more seriously. The cloud has it's place but I've never been happy with the underhanded way that Office 365 "encour

Nice to see someone taking privacy a little more seriously. The cloud has it's place but I've never been happy with the underhanded way that Office 365 "encourages" users to save to the cloud. When someone pays for one service, and is continuously pushed to use another (with additional downstream costs), I wonder isn't it time to pursue antitrust?

busterarm 4y ago
France isn't taking privacy seriously. They're the most advanced nation on the planet in terms of industrial espionage. What they're concerned about is not having their businesses operate at the whims of and be open to disruption by Americans. I work at a company that has a French government service as a customer. They are super sensitive to their data transiting across US servers but have zero concerns about transit through the rest of Europe...including Europe's "fourteen eyes" nations.
- PoignardAzur 4y ago
  > They're the most advanced nation on the planet in terms of industrial espionage. Citation needed. (Especially given that the other two contenders are the US and China)
  - busterarm 4y ago
    https://www.france24.com/en/20110104-france-industrial-espionage-economy-germany-russia-china-business https://www.france24.com/en/20110104-france-industrial-espio... https://www.lawfareblog.com/french-espionage https://www.lawfareblog.com/french-espionage https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wikileaks-france-leads-russia-china-in-industrial-spying-in-europe/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wikileaks-france-leads-russia-c... This is pretty widely known. Especially in the Defense industry and their world class industrial espionage skill goes all the way back to the eighteenth century. It's not "citation needed", you're just ignorant of history.
    - hikingsimulator 4y ago
      Deleted my message to your og message because you posted this here, but you're basically basing your whole argument on one person in a cable leak. It's not much of a base.
      - busterarm 4y ago
        Lol for you to truly believe this. German officials were still complaining about French spying in the wikileaks cables. France has partically cornered the market on datacenter infrastructure (everything from the racks down...somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 is made by French companies). If you think 300+ years of strategy/tradecraft suddenly ceased functioning 40 years ago (and because why?) you'd be sorely mistaken. It's more likely the case that manned airframe deveopment has been fairly stagnant around the world since the 80s for political/budget reasions (which is true), so you haven't been able to see their blatant wins. France has seemed to keep up with the rest of world in UAV development (Parrot) despite much less investment....
        hikingsimulator 4y ago
        That's not a sound argument, neither a sourced one. Let's take your example, Parrot, it's not because a company can do as good with less than it means it is stolen technology. Has the world over stolen the screw tech in the US technology tree because I can buy it at the hardware store for a cent when one is billed $40 to the US army? That's a wild line of reasoning. [1] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-07-30-vw-18804-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-07-30-vw-18804-...
        busterarm 4y ago
        I love how people take a throwaway line that's practically an afterthought and discard the bits about their 300+ years of experience doing exactly this. Those bits are well documented and you can go read about them with a cursory google search. But no, my reasoning is WiLd AnD cRaZy. I would say that given France's history, you would have to show me that Parrot _hasn't_ benefited from some level of industrial espionage.
  - Hnrobert42 4y ago
    I have not heard of the U.S. as a contender for industrial espionage. Traditional espionage sure, but not for competitive advantage. Do know of any sources for info about that?
    - Kukumber 4y ago
      You must be joking right The US controls the global economy, every transactions made in $ are sniffed and tracked, they know about your trade secrets And if you dare escape from their watchdog, they'll let you know illico presto [1] (this is also why i believe that cryptocurrencies fad is a FED project, and Satoshi is one of their codename) One of my biggest regret is not saving the article i read on that matter that went into the details on why, including how they leverage their army of lawyers to make sure you comply, or it was a book, it's sad that i forgot.., read a little bit about Alstom, it's very shady It's also part of the reason why they are scared about BRICs moving away from the dollar and adopting the YUAN and its digital version [1] - https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeuro https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeur... EDIT: Some documentation on the matter: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/how-the-nsa-spies-on-international-bank-transactions-a-922430.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/how-the-nsa-spies...
      - Hnrobert42 4y ago
        Hmm, I still don’t see any industrial espionage - governments spying on other countries’ businesses in order to give secret IP to their own industrial leaders. This is distinct from gathering intel on business to inform national security decisions. Your comment seems like a general distrust of the US intel collection based on a mist of evidence and conspiracy theory.
        Kukumber 4y ago
        you don't see therefore they don't do? i don't think there is much to argue here, let's move on
    - PoignardAzur 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
tzs 4y ago
> The cloud has it's place but I've never been happy with the underhanded way that Office 365 "encourages" users to save to the cloud. What does it do? I use it on my Mac and nearly all my documents are just local, except for a few I've specifically saved to the could so I can easily access them from other devices. When I make a new document and save it, it defaults to the save it locally dialog. I don't notice any encouragement, let alone underhanded encouragement, to save to the cloud. It is possible that when I first installed it the default was to give the save online dialog when saving a new document instead of the save local dialog, but it seems to remember which one you last used and give that as the default the next time. Have I missed some other encouragement to use the cloud?
- superchroma 4y ago
  its the default option and you have to click more to save to disk
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  My experience on Windows is that it selects your Onedrive account automatically. I've had to change the default because it kept trying to upload my documents. I've also had several scratch documents appear in a cloud drive at some point, probably through autosaves. Disabling cloud integrations tends to generate nag screens or "helpful" warning toolbars to "restore functionality". Going offline in Office on Windows is a path riddled with deceptive design. This is the education version of Office on Windows 11, though I haven't used or updated it in a while; not that I think Microsoft's data collection team has suddenly had a change of heart. Non-enterprise versions of the product don't seem to be available without signing in to a Microsoft account at all. You can log yourself out out after activation, but realistically very few people know about that and even then you've already given Windows a hint of a Microsoft account, which it will use to try to sign you into every chance it gets.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  It defaults to onedrive and buries local storage behind a tiny text button. It brings up a giant popup saying 'you need to upload to edit' if you open a form in read only mode and various other ways.
irjustin 4y ago
I can see government offices, but why schools? The ease of access and productivity hit wouldn't outweigh the benefits imho.
ymolodtsov 4y ago
Because storing files in the cloud is the most sensible option for most people.

busterarm 4y ago

France isn't taking privacy seriously. They're the most advanced nation on the planet in terms of industrial espionage. What they're concerned about is not having their businesses operate at the whims of and be open to disruption by Americans. I work at a company that has a French government service as a customer. They are super sensitive to their data transiting across US servers but have zero concerns about transit through the rest of Europe...including Europe's "fourteen eyes" nations.

PoignardAzur 4y ago
> They're the most advanced nation on the planet in terms of industrial espionage. Citation needed. (Especially given that the other two contenders are the US and China)
- busterarm 4y ago
  https://www.france24.com/en/20110104-france-industrial-espionage-economy-germany-russia-china-business https://www.france24.com/en/20110104-france-industrial-espio... https://www.lawfareblog.com/french-espionage https://www.lawfareblog.com/french-espionage https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wikileaks-france-leads-russia-china-in-industrial-spying-in-europe/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wikileaks-france-leads-russia-c... This is pretty widely known. Especially in the Defense industry and their world class industrial espionage skill goes all the way back to the eighteenth century. It's not "citation needed", you're just ignorant of history.
  - hikingsimulator 4y ago
    Deleted my message to your og message because you posted this here, but you're basically basing your whole argument on one person in a cable leak. It's not much of a base.
    - busterarm 4y ago
      Lol for you to truly believe this. German officials were still complaining about French spying in the wikileaks cables. France has partically cornered the market on datacenter infrastructure (everything from the racks down...somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 is made by French companies). If you think 300+ years of strategy/tradecraft suddenly ceased functioning 40 years ago (and because why?) you'd be sorely mistaken. It's more likely the case that manned airframe deveopment has been fairly stagnant around the world since the 80s for political/budget reasions (which is true), so you haven't been able to see their blatant wins. France has seemed to keep up with the rest of world in UAV development (Parrot) despite much less investment....
      - hikingsimulator 4y ago
        That's not a sound argument, neither a sourced one. Let's take your example, Parrot, it's not because a company can do as good with less than it means it is stolen technology. Has the world over stolen the screw tech in the US technology tree because I can buy it at the hardware store for a cent when one is billed $40 to the US army? That's a wild line of reasoning. [1] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-07-30-vw-18804-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-07-30-vw-18804-...
        busterarm 4y ago
        I love how people take a throwaway line that's practically an afterthought and discard the bits about their 300+ years of experience doing exactly this. Those bits are well documented and you can go read about them with a cursory google search. But no, my reasoning is WiLd AnD cRaZy. I would say that given France's history, you would have to show me that Parrot _hasn't_ benefited from some level of industrial espionage.
- Hnrobert42 4y ago
  I have not heard of the U.S. as a contender for industrial espionage. Traditional espionage sure, but not for competitive advantage. Do know of any sources for info about that?
  - Kukumber 4y ago
    You must be joking right The US controls the global economy, every transactions made in $ are sniffed and tracked, they know about your trade secrets And if you dare escape from their watchdog, they'll let you know illico presto [1] (this is also why i believe that cryptocurrencies fad is a FED project, and Satoshi is one of their codename) One of my biggest regret is not saving the article i read on that matter that went into the details on why, including how they leverage their army of lawyers to make sure you comply, or it was a book, it's sad that i forgot.., read a little bit about Alstom, it's very shady It's also part of the reason why they are scared about BRICs moving away from the dollar and adopting the YUAN and its digital version [1] - https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeuro https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeur... EDIT: Some documentation on the matter: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/how-the-nsa-spies-on-international-bank-transactions-a-922430.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/how-the-nsa-spies...
    - Hnrobert42 4y ago
      Hmm, I still don’t see any industrial espionage - governments spying on other countries’ businesses in order to give secret IP to their own industrial leaders. This is distinct from gathering intel on business to inform national security decisions. Your comment seems like a general distrust of the US intel collection based on a mist of evidence and conspiracy theory.
      - Kukumber 4y ago
        you don't see therefore they don't do? i don't think there is much to argue here, let's move on
  - PoignardAzur 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

tzs 4y ago

> The cloud has it's place but I've never been happy with the underhanded way that Office 365 "encourages" users to save to the cloud. What does it do? I use it on my Mac and nearly all my documents are just local, except for a few I've specifically saved to the could so I can easily access them from other devices. When I make a new document and save it, it defaults to the save it locally dialog. I don't notice any encouragement, let alone underhanded encouragement, to save to the cloud. It is possible that when I first installed it the default was to give the save online dialog when saving a new document instead of the save local dialog, but it seems to remember which one you last used and give that as the default the next time. Have I missed some other encouragement to use the cloud?

superchroma 4y ago
its the default option and you have to click more to save to disk
jeroenhd 4y ago
My experience on Windows is that it selects your Onedrive account automatically. I've had to change the default because it kept trying to upload my documents. I've also had several scratch documents appear in a cloud drive at some point, probably through autosaves. Disabling cloud integrations tends to generate nag screens or "helpful" warning toolbars to "restore functionality". Going offline in Office on Windows is a path riddled with deceptive design. This is the education version of Office on Windows 11, though I haven't used or updated it in a while; not that I think Microsoft's data collection team has suddenly had a change of heart. Non-enterprise versions of the product don't seem to be available without signing in to a Microsoft account at all. You can log yourself out out after activation, but realistically very few people know about that and even then you've already given Windows a hint of a Microsoft account, which it will use to try to sign you into every chance it gets.
Schroedingersat 4y ago
It defaults to onedrive and buries local storage behind a tiny text button. It brings up a giant popup saying 'you need to upload to edit' if you open a form in read only mode and various other ways.

irjustin 4y ago

I can see government offices, but why schools? The ease of access and productivity hit wouldn't outweigh the benefits imho.

ymolodtsov 4y ago

Because storing files in the cloud is the most sensible option for most people.