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Toyota can make Corollas and Camrys cheap because they can produce en masse. No new industry can scale to that size quickly enough to replicate that producti

Toyota can make Corollas and Camrys cheap because they can produce en masse. No new industry can scale to that size quickly enough to replicate that production model. Even legacy auto makers are struggling to scale and produce EVs cheaply. Expecting Tesla to do that right away is ridiculous and unfair. And the only reason regulators as well as automakers moved to EVs was because it was shown to be possible and really, really popular. Tesla did that. And voting in public officials who will implement mass transit is not Elon's job. It's ours. He's busy doing the things private industry can do, despite criticism and naysayers. Maybe we should get on our part.

lapcat 4y ago
> Even legacy auto makers are struggling to scale and produce EVs cheaply. Expecting Tesla to do that right away is ridiculous and unfair. Are they even trying though? I don't get the impression that Tesla is trying to produce EVs cheaply. All the self-driving crap is adding to the cost, and even worse it's getting them in trouble with safety regulators, which is the last problem they need. And now all the Twitter crap, how is that helping? Let me put it this way: Musk has become the wealthiest person in the world, yet no actual environmental problem has been solved. To me, that's very telling. It's mostly promise, hype, not reality. The cars are real, the rockets are real, but saving the Earth is not real. Congrats on the business success, but that's not the same as public service, and nothing about Musk's behavior gives me confidence about his "good intentions" toward the world. Or here's an alternative take: What else are well-to-do Tesla owners doing to save the environment beyond buying a Tesla? I don't really believe their hype any more than I believe Musk's hype. It's a collective endeavor, one in which you must act as a citizen and not just a consumer.
- SyzygistSix 4y ago
  You say you aren't aware that Tesla is trying to sell EVs cheaply. That is either selective awareness or you do not understand how economics, markets, and industry works. Home computers also weren't cheap, popular, and abundant yet when only single digit percentages of people owned one. Self-driving packages are not to save the environment. It's an effort to save lives. And is an add-on and is entirely optional to purchase. If you think making the effort to save some of the 10,000 lives lost in car accidents in the US is a waste of money and effort, I don't know what to say other than I disagree. It's pretty obvious the gasoline/diesel engine is dying. It was anyways but Tesla managed to push the industry to kill it at least ten years sooner. If you think those emissions are nothing, again, I don't know what to tell you. That is a major source of emissions that has now found a replacement and the market has forced the legacy ICE industry to move rapidly in the direction of EVs or lose profits and market share. He isn't saving the earth. No one person or solution is. The sources of CO2 are numerous. Personally I prefer the people who get rich because they start a company addressing one of these problems. Rather than, say, Zara, or the meatpacking industry. Getting rid of the gasoline engine is a big deal. One that people in public service or other companies were unable and/or unwilling to do. You are welcome to address that problem however you like. I wish you just as much success in that. As someone who has bicycle commuted for decades and seen the to reluctance for people to adopt that even in cycling friendly progressive towns, I'm glad to see the issue being addressed in a way that accepts people's desires rather than force to change them. It seems more effective even though it is not the vision for the world I want. Starting a car company has got to be one of the least likely ways to make money. A major US car company has not become successful since the mid 20th century. And history is littered with failed car companies. There are a whole lot of reasons to not like Musk. Risking his fortune and putting his time and effort into killing off one of the most polluting, wealthy, and entrenched industries when by far the most likely outcome was failure is not one of them. We saw quite clearly how the fossil fuel industry treated scientists and activists making global warming a known issue by making huge efforts to muddy the issues and create disinformation. But I'm sure nothing of the sort is happening regarding Musk just because his companies threaten gasoline and legacy auto industry profits. And anyways, educated liberals are immune to that sort of disinformation. Social media is a huge source of disinformation and propaganda. Perhaps it really is best for people to rethink their relationship to is or even stop using it altogether.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > That is either selective awareness or you do not understand how economics, markets, and industry works. This is the second time you've personally insulted me in this thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33683528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33683528 And also this ridiculous straw man: > If you think making the effort to save some of the 10,000 lives lost in car accidents in the US is a waste of money and effort I'm done here, and I've flagged this reply. Please follow the HN guidelines in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

lapcat 4y ago

> Even legacy auto makers are struggling to scale and produce EVs cheaply. Expecting Tesla to do that right away is ridiculous and unfair. Are they even trying though? I don't get the impression that Tesla is trying to produce EVs cheaply. All the self-driving crap is adding to the cost, and even worse it's getting them in trouble with safety regulators, which is the last problem they need. And now all the Twitter crap, how is that helping? Let me put it this way: Musk has become the wealthiest person in the world, yet no actual environmental problem has been solved. To me, that's very telling. It's mostly promise, hype, not reality. The cars are real, the rockets are real, but saving the Earth is not real. Congrats on the business success, but that's not the same as public service, and nothing about Musk's behavior gives me confidence about his "good intentions" toward the world. Or here's an alternative take: What else are well-to-do Tesla owners doing to save the environment beyond buying a Tesla? I don't really believe their hype any more than I believe Musk's hype. It's a collective endeavor, one in which you must act as a citizen and not just a consumer.

SyzygistSix 4y ago
You say you aren't aware that Tesla is trying to sell EVs cheaply. That is either selective awareness or you do not understand how economics, markets, and industry works. Home computers also weren't cheap, popular, and abundant yet when only single digit percentages of people owned one. Self-driving packages are not to save the environment. It's an effort to save lives. And is an add-on and is entirely optional to purchase. If you think making the effort to save some of the 10,000 lives lost in car accidents in the US is a waste of money and effort, I don't know what to say other than I disagree. It's pretty obvious the gasoline/diesel engine is dying. It was anyways but Tesla managed to push the industry to kill it at least ten years sooner. If you think those emissions are nothing, again, I don't know what to tell you. That is a major source of emissions that has now found a replacement and the market has forced the legacy ICE industry to move rapidly in the direction of EVs or lose profits and market share. He isn't saving the earth. No one person or solution is. The sources of CO2 are numerous. Personally I prefer the people who get rich because they start a company addressing one of these problems. Rather than, say, Zara, or the meatpacking industry. Getting rid of the gasoline engine is a big deal. One that people in public service or other companies were unable and/or unwilling to do. You are welcome to address that problem however you like. I wish you just as much success in that. As someone who has bicycle commuted for decades and seen the to reluctance for people to adopt that even in cycling friendly progressive towns, I'm glad to see the issue being addressed in a way that accepts people's desires rather than force to change them. It seems more effective even though it is not the vision for the world I want. Starting a car company has got to be one of the least likely ways to make money. A major US car company has not become successful since the mid 20th century. And history is littered with failed car companies. There are a whole lot of reasons to not like Musk. Risking his fortune and putting his time and effort into killing off one of the most polluting, wealthy, and entrenched industries when by far the most likely outcome was failure is not one of them. We saw quite clearly how the fossil fuel industry treated scientists and activists making global warming a known issue by making huge efforts to muddy the issues and create disinformation. But I'm sure nothing of the sort is happening regarding Musk just because his companies threaten gasoline and legacy auto industry profits. And anyways, educated liberals are immune to that sort of disinformation. Social media is a huge source of disinformation and propaganda. Perhaps it really is best for people to rethink their relationship to is or even stop using it altogether.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > That is either selective awareness or you do not understand how economics, markets, and industry works. This is the second time you've personally insulted me in this thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33683528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33683528 And also this ridiculous straw man: > If you think making the effort to save some of the 10,000 lives lost in car accidents in the US is a waste of money and effort I'm done here, and I've flagged this reply. Please follow the HN guidelines in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html