8 ms·

It has been very interesting watching people laughing at me for investing in "An Internet guy" trying to build cars in 2014. To now calling me a "Elon Fanboy"

It has been very interesting watching people laughing at me for investing in "An Internet guy" trying to build cars in 2014. To now calling me a "Elon Fanboy" and saying that "the car guy doesn't understand internet companies". Yes, I'm a fan of the guy that helped me make millions of dollars, and who is forcing other car companies to electric. What do you expect my response to be? "I hate that all these gas cars are going away and I wish I had lost all my money"

d23 4y ago
> What do you expect my response to be? "I hate that all these gas cars are going away and I wish I had lost all my money" Let me whip up some copy for you: “I was a fan of his, but his childish behavior as of late has been disappointing.”
- gitfan86 4y ago
  "as of late" During the Paypal days he slept in the office, expected everyone to work long hours, and got into arguments and was an asshole at times. This has been well known for over a decade. Why didn't the media run articles talking about how hard he was to work for during the past 10 years? Why just now? And, why is the NYT writing puff pieces about SBF? Do you ever think that maybe you are parroting what the media wants you to think?
  - Jotra7 4y ago
  - dagmx 4y ago
    I’ve read about his work ethics for ages, which means the media did report on it. Do you maybe think you’re parroting what groups of sycophants say to each other to rationalize their idols?
    - gitfan86 4y ago
      Given that my opinion hasn't changed much for 8 years, I suspect, I wasn't parroting the 'fanboy' rhetoric from 2022 back in 2015.
      - dagmx 4y ago
        2015 isn’t that long ago when it comes to Elon fandom though. 2015 is firmly in the period when he was amassing his fandom with the work at Tesla. The S was 2012 and the X was 2015. Both were huge things for his legacy that captured many minds, especially the X with its bold door design. So I’m not sure what your point could even be given that you sound like a long term Elon fan. Generally your talking points are straight out of every populist fan base.
        gitfan86 4y ago
        In 2015 the "populist" opinion was that Tesla wouldn't beat Toyota/Ford/GM/VW at making Electric Vehicles. I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that it was popular to think Tesla was going to beat GM at making EVs in 2015.
        dagmx 4y ago
        Populist != popular In fact, populist is often not popular till it hits a runaway inflection point. As a case point: Trump was a populist leader but was not a popular leader NOR *the* popular leader. Besides, this is not about the view of Tesla but the view of Elon.
        gitfan86 4y ago
        So when did it become populist to hate Elon Musk?
        dagmx 4y ago
        Again, popular != populist. It is not populist to dislike Elon, however dislike of Elon is currently popular.
  - rizzaxc 4y ago
    and I'm sure you know he was forced out as CEO by the board even though he had the most equity, mostly because he was pushing terrible branding (X instead of PayPal), product and engineering decisions (Windows instead of Linux,...) and getting into arguments with the folks who'd made PayPal working. Really makes you think 'ride or die' management style doesn't work with boring products like money wiring or social meds
    - gitfan86 4y ago
      Sure, I'm not a FinTech COO/CEO expert, so it is entirely possible that the optimal management style for PayPal is Dan Schulman's style.
  - d23 4y ago
    Yes, you're right -- it's likely he's always been a childish ass. My impression of him before this was neutral to positive, probably because he hasn't been drawing as much attention to himself. Your defense I guess is that he's always been a narcissistic sociopathic inept moron, and since you have supported him then you are unable to back out now? > Do you ever think that maybe you are parroting what the media wants you to think? Back to the same arguments people make about Trump, that a liberal media is somehow making it impossible to accurately gauge this childish narcissistic psychopath's behavior. I can see his tweets. I can read the things he says directly. I can see his behavior. I won't be easily swayed by someone trying to put a layer of spin on top in either direction. > And, why is the NYT writing puff pieces about SBF? I don't care? It's irrelevant to this? It's a bizarre thing to bring up? It's increasingly apparent that the attacks of "media made you think" are outward projections from people who incapable of processing basic information on their own; they seem to assume everyone else is equally incapable.
    - gitfan86 4y ago
      The fact that you admit to being a bad judge of character in the past should give you pause to reflect on the possibility that you are still a bad judge of character today. Why did you have a "neutral to positive" impression of a "childish ass and a narcissistic sociopathic inept moron"? Is it possible that you are just repeating whatever you hear from the media? And now they have decided that he should be hated? Also, interesting that you mention Donald Trump because my opinion of Donald Trump has not changed over the past 15 years. I always thought he was a selfish conman. So is my judgment better than NBC who paid him millions and is it also better than the Clintons who went to his wedding?
      - willnonya 4y ago
        I did not admit to being a bad judge of character, I simply paid him little attention. This is a bizarre reframing of the conversation. Mixing or changing of context, trimming statements for the bits you want. Not at all meaningful.
dagmx 4y ago
Your argument is a strawman. 1. Nobody is saying the results of his previous work should be negated. 2. Nobody is arguing has cars vs EV here. 3. You can totally dislike what someone has become or revealed themselves to be without that diminishing who they were prior. 4. You can also change your opinion on someone after learning more about them. Your arguments seem emotional rather than rational.
- gitfan86 4y ago
  The reality is that Elon hasn't changed much over the past 20 years. I was never under the impression that he was an easy person to work for. What has changed is that in 2016 the NYT wrote articles comparing him to Iron Man[1], and in 2022 they are saying he is incompetent[2]. 1. Elon Musk served as a real-life role model for Tony Stark, the superhero in the “Iron Man” movies. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/07/25/business/elon-musks-companies-spacex-telsa-solarcity.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/07/25/business/elon... 2. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/10/opinion/elon-musk-twitter-chaos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/10/opinion/elon-musk-twitter...
  - dagmx 4y ago
    Elon may have not changed significantly, but his power has. With that power has come a change in how much influence he has , and what he can do with his power. Also the world has progressed. Social norms have changed, what is acceptable has changed. this also ignores accumulation of events. Him doing one crappy thing is maybe not newsworthy. Him doing ten of them suddenly adds up.
    - gitfan86 4y ago
      That is a fair assessment of the situation.

d23 4y ago

> What do you expect my response to be? "I hate that all these gas cars are going away and I wish I had lost all my money" Let me whip up some copy for you: “I was a fan of his, but his childish behavior as of late has been disappointing.”

gitfan86 4y ago
"as of late" During the Paypal days he slept in the office, expected everyone to work long hours, and got into arguments and was an asshole at times. This has been well known for over a decade. Why didn't the media run articles talking about how hard he was to work for during the past 10 years? Why just now? And, why is the NYT writing puff pieces about SBF? Do you ever think that maybe you are parroting what the media wants you to think?
- Jotra7 4y ago
- dagmx 4y ago
  I’ve read about his work ethics for ages, which means the media did report on it. Do you maybe think you’re parroting what groups of sycophants say to each other to rationalize their idols?
  - gitfan86 4y ago
    Given that my opinion hasn't changed much for 8 years, I suspect, I wasn't parroting the 'fanboy' rhetoric from 2022 back in 2015.
    - dagmx 4y ago
      2015 isn’t that long ago when it comes to Elon fandom though. 2015 is firmly in the period when he was amassing his fandom with the work at Tesla. The S was 2012 and the X was 2015. Both were huge things for his legacy that captured many minds, especially the X with its bold door design. So I’m not sure what your point could even be given that you sound like a long term Elon fan. Generally your talking points are straight out of every populist fan base.
      - gitfan86 4y ago
        In 2015 the "populist" opinion was that Tesla wouldn't beat Toyota/Ford/GM/VW at making Electric Vehicles. I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that it was popular to think Tesla was going to beat GM at making EVs in 2015.
        dagmx 4y ago
        Populist != popular In fact, populist is often not popular till it hits a runaway inflection point. As a case point: Trump was a populist leader but was not a popular leader NOR *the* popular leader. Besides, this is not about the view of Tesla but the view of Elon.
        gitfan86 4y ago
        So when did it become populist to hate Elon Musk?
        dagmx 4y ago
        Again, popular != populist. It is not populist to dislike Elon, however dislike of Elon is currently popular.
- rizzaxc 4y ago
  and I'm sure you know he was forced out as CEO by the board even though he had the most equity, mostly because he was pushing terrible branding (X instead of PayPal), product and engineering decisions (Windows instead of Linux,...) and getting into arguments with the folks who'd made PayPal working. Really makes you think 'ride or die' management style doesn't work with boring products like money wiring or social meds
  - gitfan86 4y ago
    Sure, I'm not a FinTech COO/CEO expert, so it is entirely possible that the optimal management style for PayPal is Dan Schulman's style.
- d23 4y ago
  Yes, you're right -- it's likely he's always been a childish ass. My impression of him before this was neutral to positive, probably because he hasn't been drawing as much attention to himself. Your defense I guess is that he's always been a narcissistic sociopathic inept moron, and since you have supported him then you are unable to back out now? > Do you ever think that maybe you are parroting what the media wants you to think? Back to the same arguments people make about Trump, that a liberal media is somehow making it impossible to accurately gauge this childish narcissistic psychopath's behavior. I can see his tweets. I can read the things he says directly. I can see his behavior. I won't be easily swayed by someone trying to put a layer of spin on top in either direction. > And, why is the NYT writing puff pieces about SBF? I don't care? It's irrelevant to this? It's a bizarre thing to bring up? It's increasingly apparent that the attacks of "media made you think" are outward projections from people who incapable of processing basic information on their own; they seem to assume everyone else is equally incapable.
  - gitfan86 4y ago
    The fact that you admit to being a bad judge of character in the past should give you pause to reflect on the possibility that you are still a bad judge of character today. Why did you have a "neutral to positive" impression of a "childish ass and a narcissistic sociopathic inept moron"? Is it possible that you are just repeating whatever you hear from the media? And now they have decided that he should be hated? Also, interesting that you mention Donald Trump because my opinion of Donald Trump has not changed over the past 15 years. I always thought he was a selfish conman. So is my judgment better than NBC who paid him millions and is it also better than the Clintons who went to his wedding?
    - willnonya 4y ago
      I did not admit to being a bad judge of character, I simply paid him little attention. This is a bizarre reframing of the conversation. Mixing or changing of context, trimming statements for the bits you want. Not at all meaningful.

dagmx 4y ago

Your argument is a strawman. 1. Nobody is saying the results of his previous work should be negated. 2. Nobody is arguing has cars vs EV here. 3. You can totally dislike what someone has become or revealed themselves to be without that diminishing who they were prior. 4. You can also change your opinion on someone after learning more about them. Your arguments seem emotional rather than rational.

gitfan86 4y ago
The reality is that Elon hasn't changed much over the past 20 years. I was never under the impression that he was an easy person to work for. What has changed is that in 2016 the NYT wrote articles comparing him to Iron Man[1], and in 2022 they are saying he is incompetent[2]. 1. Elon Musk served as a real-life role model for Tony Stark, the superhero in the “Iron Man” movies. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/07/25/business/elon-musks-companies-spacex-telsa-solarcity.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/07/25/business/elon... 2. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/10/opinion/elon-musk-twitter-chaos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/10/opinion/elon-musk-twitter...
- dagmx 4y ago
  Elon may have not changed significantly, but his power has. With that power has come a change in how much influence he has , and what he can do with his power. Also the world has progressed. Social norms have changed, what is acceptable has changed. this also ignores accumulation of events. Him doing one crappy thing is maybe not newsworthy. Him doing ten of them suddenly adds up.
  - gitfan86 4y ago
    That is a fair assessment of the situation.