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> but can you tell me on the top of your head which processor has which architecture? Not sure how that's relevant. By name, I have no idea if Cannon Lake is b

by Sakos 4y ago

> but can you tell me on the top of your head which processor has which architecture? Not sure how that's relevant. By name, I have no idea if Cannon Lake is before or after Skylake. I only know because I've heard of Skylake longer than Cannon Lake. I'd have no idea how to place any of the post-Skylake architectures amongst each other chronologically or performance-wise. I know that Zen 1 is older then Zen 3, because that's how the naming scheme works. The same way I know that the PS5 came after the PS4. It's like the Xbox bullshit. The only reason why I know Xbox One is newer than 360 is because I'm a gamer who pays way too much attention to this shit.

jl6 4y ago
The confusion is intentional. It’s easier to sell an old thing if the customer can’t tell it’s an old thing, and a lot easier if they also don’t get any useful information about how the product compares to its competitors.
- acdha 4y ago
  I’d be really surprised if this wasn’t the exact reason. When you go to Costco, Walmart, etc. you’ll see “Intel i7” in huge letters, but the actual generation might not even be listed somewhere you can see without opening the box.
vladvasiliu 4y ago
> I know that Zen 1 is older then Zen 3, because that's how the naming scheme works. I think GP's point is that "zen" is the architecture, same as some random lake. Sure, 2 comes before three, whereas it's not clear whether the sky comes before the tiger. Whereas the AMD model number is 5600, say. But then you have interesting things, like 5500U mobile parts which are actually "zen 2+" and others, like the 5560U which are "zen 3". This was an issue for me last year when attempting to jump on the "zen 3 bandwagon", but having to look up "enterprise laptop" models, which wouldn't specify which kind of zen the cpu was, only some xyz number. Most were 4xxx, so I knew those were "mobile zen 2", but I almost picked one of the "zen 2+" 5xxx models. I haven't followed things that closely, but I'm pretty confident that an intel Xyyy is "gen X". And, usually, marketing copy says i5-Xyyy.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  It's not always. For example "8th gen" Intel has both Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake CPUs, some gens have a mix of 14nm CPUs for desktop and 10nm for Mobile. It's honestly pretty confusing as to which Lake follows what at this point as they are slight refinements of slight refinements. AMD is at least making it so the second digit will indicate architecture (the first will be year released).
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    I did not know that about Intel. Guess I'm lucky I wasn't in the market for a new PC at that time... Do they at least all support Windows 11, since I think "gen 8" is the first one officially supported? > AMD is at least making it so the second digit will indicate architecture (the first will be year released). Unfortunately, that's not always the case. See, for example, the Ryzen 5 5500U which is a zen 2 part and the 5560U which is a zen 3 part. The architecture is quite different, too: the first being a 2x3 configuration, while the second is 1x6. The Zen 3 one was also released as a 54xx "PRO" version. See [1] note 1. They were both released in January 2021, but then you have the Ryzen 5 4680U which was released later, in April 2021, while being a zen 2. As a matter of fact, I'm quite sure the second digit is the model's place in the range. See 3700 desktop parts, which are zen 2, and 5700 ones which are zen 3. Moreover, to your point about differences between desktop and laptop parts, I've always considered that a given. Zen 2 desktop parts already had pci-e 4, whereas the zen 3 laptop ones only had pci-e 3, even the higher end ones. The first mobile parts to have pci-e 4 seem to be the 6xxx models. --- [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2#Lucienne_(5000_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2#Lucienne_(5000_series) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_3#Cezanne_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_3#Cezanne_2
    - goosedragons 4y ago
      The AMD changes haven't taken place yet. They start 2023. Also I was slightly wrong with the 3rd digit actually being architecture. https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/7/23340934/amd-ryzen-model-numbers-naming-announcement https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/7/23340934/amd-ryzen-model-n... The Windows 11 supported CPU list is pretty arbitrary and doesn't have much to do with the capabilities of the CPU. The main real requirement is TPM 2.0 and even that can be worked around. And there are some officially supported 7th gen CPUs because MS realized how dumb it was for the Surface Studio they were still selling to not be supported.
spicymaki 4y ago
Names like Skylake and Cannon Lake are just codenames for the architecture. AMD does the same thing with Matisse, Rome, Vermeer, Milan, etc. I actually find AMD naming mildly confusing Zen 3 Ryzen 5 5600x (Vermeer). The actual break down is quite simple and described on their website: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/processor-numbers.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/processor... tldr; Intel processors are numbered like 13900K (13th gen) the first 1-2 digits are the generation. So 9800 is 9th gen 10850K is 10th gen.

by Sakos 4y ago

jl6 4y ago

The confusion is intentional. It’s easier to sell an old thing if the customer can’t tell it’s an old thing, and a lot easier if they also don’t get any useful information about how the product compares to its competitors.

acdha 4y ago
I’d be really surprised if this wasn’t the exact reason. When you go to Costco, Walmart, etc. you’ll see “Intel i7” in huge letters, but the actual generation might not even be listed somewhere you can see without opening the box.

vladvasiliu 4y ago

> I know that Zen 1 is older then Zen 3, because that's how the naming scheme works. I think GP's point is that "zen" is the architecture, same as some random lake. Sure, 2 comes before three, whereas it's not clear whether the sky comes before the tiger. Whereas the AMD model number is 5600, say. But then you have interesting things, like 5500U mobile parts which are actually "zen 2+" and others, like the 5560U which are "zen 3". This was an issue for me last year when attempting to jump on the "zen 3 bandwagon", but having to look up "enterprise laptop" models, which wouldn't specify which kind of zen the cpu was, only some xyz number. Most were 4xxx, so I knew those were "mobile zen 2", but I almost picked one of the "zen 2+" 5xxx models. I haven't followed things that closely, but I'm pretty confident that an intel Xyyy is "gen X". And, usually, marketing copy says i5-Xyyy.

goosedragons 4y ago
It's not always. For example "8th gen" Intel has both Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake CPUs, some gens have a mix of 14nm CPUs for desktop and 10nm for Mobile. It's honestly pretty confusing as to which Lake follows what at this point as they are slight refinements of slight refinements. AMD is at least making it so the second digit will indicate architecture (the first will be year released).
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  I did not know that about Intel. Guess I'm lucky I wasn't in the market for a new PC at that time... Do they at least all support Windows 11, since I think "gen 8" is the first one officially supported? > AMD is at least making it so the second digit will indicate architecture (the first will be year released). Unfortunately, that's not always the case. See, for example, the Ryzen 5 5500U which is a zen 2 part and the 5560U which is a zen 3 part. The architecture is quite different, too: the first being a 2x3 configuration, while the second is 1x6. The Zen 3 one was also released as a 54xx "PRO" version. See [1] note 1. They were both released in January 2021, but then you have the Ryzen 5 4680U which was released later, in April 2021, while being a zen 2. As a matter of fact, I'm quite sure the second digit is the model's place in the range. See 3700 desktop parts, which are zen 2, and 5700 ones which are zen 3. Moreover, to your point about differences between desktop and laptop parts, I've always considered that a given. Zen 2 desktop parts already had pci-e 4, whereas the zen 3 laptop ones only had pci-e 3, even the higher end ones. The first mobile parts to have pci-e 4 seem to be the 6xxx models. --- [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2#Lucienne_(5000_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2#Lucienne_(5000_series) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_3#Cezanne_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_3#Cezanne_2
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    The AMD changes haven't taken place yet. They start 2023. Also I was slightly wrong with the 3rd digit actually being architecture. https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/7/23340934/amd-ryzen-model-numbers-naming-announcement https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/7/23340934/amd-ryzen-model-n... The Windows 11 supported CPU list is pretty arbitrary and doesn't have much to do with the capabilities of the CPU. The main real requirement is TPM 2.0 and even that can be worked around. And there are some officially supported 7th gen CPUs because MS realized how dumb it was for the Surface Studio they were still selling to not be supported.

spicymaki 4y ago

Names like Skylake and Cannon Lake are just codenames for the architecture. AMD does the same thing with Matisse, Rome, Vermeer, Milan, etc. I actually find AMD naming mildly confusing Zen 3 Ryzen 5 5600x (Vermeer). The actual break down is quite simple and described on their website: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/processor-numbers.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/processor... tldr; Intel processors are numbered like 13900K (13th gen) the first 1-2 digits are the generation. So 9800 is 9th gen 10850K is 10th gen.