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On the desktop side Intel's naming is not so bad. We are at 13000 now, 12000 was before, 14000 follows. They call it 13th gen accordingly, which is incorrect bu

by onli 4y ago

On the desktop side Intel's naming is not so bad. We are at 13000 now, 12000 was before, 14000 follows. They call it 13th gen accordingly, which is incorrect but memorable. Zen isn't all that better. Sure, Zen 1, 2, ... seems clearer, but can you tell me on the top of your head which processor has which architecture? Including nice outliers like the Ryzen 5 1600 AF? Now do the same for the mobile processors, the naming there is a total clusterfuck. Also, maybe a bit more on topic: The current processor generation is actually nice and gives a real performance increase. Enough so that all three (i5-13600K, i7-13700K and i9-13900K) take the top three positions in my meta benchmark (for games). AMD follows right behind that (and needs less energy to do so), so it's really a good race now, just like the article concludes.

Sakos 4y ago
> but can you tell me on the top of your head which processor has which architecture? Not sure how that's relevant. By name, I have no idea if Cannon Lake is before or after Skylake. I only know because I've heard of Skylake longer than Cannon Lake. I'd have no idea how to place any of the post-Skylake architectures amongst each other chronologically or performance-wise. I know that Zen 1 is older then Zen 3, because that's how the naming scheme works. The same way I know that the PS5 came after the PS4. It's like the Xbox bullshit. The only reason why I know Xbox One is newer than 360 is because I'm a gamer who pays way too much attention to this shit.
- jl6 4y ago
  The confusion is intentional. It’s easier to sell an old thing if the customer can’t tell it’s an old thing, and a lot easier if they also don’t get any useful information about how the product compares to its competitors.
  - acdha 4y ago
    I’d be really surprised if this wasn’t the exact reason. When you go to Costco, Walmart, etc. you’ll see “Intel i7” in huge letters, but the actual generation might not even be listed somewhere you can see without opening the box.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  > I know that Zen 1 is older then Zen 3, because that's how the naming scheme works. I think GP's point is that "zen" is the architecture, same as some random lake. Sure, 2 comes before three, whereas it's not clear whether the sky comes before the tiger. Whereas the AMD model number is 5600, say. But then you have interesting things, like 5500U mobile parts which are actually "zen 2+" and others, like the 5560U which are "zen 3". This was an issue for me last year when attempting to jump on the "zen 3 bandwagon", but having to look up "enterprise laptop" models, which wouldn't specify which kind of zen the cpu was, only some xyz number. Most were 4xxx, so I knew those were "mobile zen 2", but I almost picked one of the "zen 2+" 5xxx models. I haven't followed things that closely, but I'm pretty confident that an intel Xyyy is "gen X". And, usually, marketing copy says i5-Xyyy.
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    It's not always. For example "8th gen" Intel has both Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake CPUs, some gens have a mix of 14nm CPUs for desktop and 10nm for Mobile. It's honestly pretty confusing as to which Lake follows what at this point as they are slight refinements of slight refinements. AMD is at least making it so the second digit will indicate architecture (the first will be year released).
    - vladvasiliu 4y ago
      I did not know that about Intel. Guess I'm lucky I wasn't in the market for a new PC at that time... Do they at least all support Windows 11, since I think "gen 8" is the first one officially supported? > AMD is at least making it so the second digit will indicate architecture (the first will be year released). Unfortunately, that's not always the case. See, for example, the Ryzen 5 5500U which is a zen 2 part and the 5560U which is a zen 3 part. The architecture is quite different, too: the first being a 2x3 configuration, while the second is 1x6. The Zen 3 one was also released as a 54xx "PRO" version. See [1] note 1. They were both released in January 2021, but then you have the Ryzen 5 4680U which was released later, in April 2021, while being a zen 2. As a matter of fact, I'm quite sure the second digit is the model's place in the range. See 3700 desktop parts, which are zen 2, and 5700 ones which are zen 3. Moreover, to your point about differences between desktop and laptop parts, I've always considered that a given. Zen 2 desktop parts already had pci-e 4, whereas the zen 3 laptop ones only had pci-e 3, even the higher end ones. The first mobile parts to have pci-e 4 seem to be the 6xxx models. --- [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2#Lucienne_(5000_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2#Lucienne_(5000_series) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_3#Cezanne_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_3#Cezanne_2
- spicymaki 4y ago
  Names like Skylake and Cannon Lake are just codenames for the architecture. AMD does the same thing with Matisse, Rome, Vermeer, Milan, etc. I actually find AMD naming mildly confusing Zen 3 Ryzen 5 5600x (Vermeer). The actual break down is quite simple and described on their website: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/processor-numbers.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/processor... tldr; Intel processors are numbered like 13900K (13th gen) the first 1-2 digits are the generation. So 9800 is 9th gen 10850K is 10th gen.
jerrygenser 4y ago
Have you tried a power limited version of Intel to compare? I have my 7700x limited to 65w with very little performance loss -- it's very easy with eco mode. I've seen lot of benchmarks with 7000 series chips on eco mode but not so much on Intel side. These chips really should have been power limited with a little less multicore performance instead of being power drains.
- onli 4y ago
  Hey, kind of. I'm just collecting benchmark results to create a global ranking (global as in spanning release generations), not benchmarking myself. I saw that the eco mode of the AMD processors saw some attention, and then in the 13000 reviews as well. https://www.computerbase.de/2022-10/intel-core-i9-13900k-i7-13700-i5-13600k-test/2/#abschnitt_leistung_in_apps_bei_reduzierter_tdp https://www.computerbase.de/2022-10/intel-core-i9-13900k-i7-... would be one example.

by onli 4y ago

Sakos 4y ago

> but can you tell me on the top of your head which processor has which architecture? Not sure how that's relevant. By name, I have no idea if Cannon Lake is before or after Skylake. I only know because I've heard of Skylake longer than Cannon Lake. I'd have no idea how to place any of the post-Skylake architectures amongst each other chronologically or performance-wise. I know that Zen 1 is older then Zen 3, because that's how the naming scheme works. The same way I know that the PS5 came after the PS4. It's like the Xbox bullshit. The only reason why I know Xbox One is newer than 360 is because I'm a gamer who pays way too much attention to this shit.

jl6 4y ago
The confusion is intentional. It’s easier to sell an old thing if the customer can’t tell it’s an old thing, and a lot easier if they also don’t get any useful information about how the product compares to its competitors.
- acdha 4y ago
  I’d be really surprised if this wasn’t the exact reason. When you go to Costco, Walmart, etc. you’ll see “Intel i7” in huge letters, but the actual generation might not even be listed somewhere you can see without opening the box.
vladvasiliu 4y ago
> I know that Zen 1 is older then Zen 3, because that's how the naming scheme works. I think GP's point is that "zen" is the architecture, same as some random lake. Sure, 2 comes before three, whereas it's not clear whether the sky comes before the tiger. Whereas the AMD model number is 5600, say. But then you have interesting things, like 5500U mobile parts which are actually "zen 2+" and others, like the 5560U which are "zen 3". This was an issue for me last year when attempting to jump on the "zen 3 bandwagon", but having to look up "enterprise laptop" models, which wouldn't specify which kind of zen the cpu was, only some xyz number. Most were 4xxx, so I knew those were "mobile zen 2", but I almost picked one of the "zen 2+" 5xxx models. I haven't followed things that closely, but I'm pretty confident that an intel Xyyy is "gen X". And, usually, marketing copy says i5-Xyyy.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  It's not always. For example "8th gen" Intel has both Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake CPUs, some gens have a mix of 14nm CPUs for desktop and 10nm for Mobile. It's honestly pretty confusing as to which Lake follows what at this point as they are slight refinements of slight refinements. AMD is at least making it so the second digit will indicate architecture (the first will be year released).
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    I did not know that about Intel. Guess I'm lucky I wasn't in the market for a new PC at that time... Do they at least all support Windows 11, since I think "gen 8" is the first one officially supported? > AMD is at least making it so the second digit will indicate architecture (the first will be year released). Unfortunately, that's not always the case. See, for example, the Ryzen 5 5500U which is a zen 2 part and the 5560U which is a zen 3 part. The architecture is quite different, too: the first being a 2x3 configuration, while the second is 1x6. The Zen 3 one was also released as a 54xx "PRO" version. See [1] note 1. They were both released in January 2021, but then you have the Ryzen 5 4680U which was released later, in April 2021, while being a zen 2. As a matter of fact, I'm quite sure the second digit is the model's place in the range. See 3700 desktop parts, which are zen 2, and 5700 ones which are zen 3. Moreover, to your point about differences between desktop and laptop parts, I've always considered that a given. Zen 2 desktop parts already had pci-e 4, whereas the zen 3 laptop ones only had pci-e 3, even the higher end ones. The first mobile parts to have pci-e 4 seem to be the 6xxx models. --- [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2#Lucienne_(5000_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2#Lucienne_(5000_series) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_3#Cezanne_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_3#Cezanne_2
spicymaki 4y ago
Names like Skylake and Cannon Lake are just codenames for the architecture. AMD does the same thing with Matisse, Rome, Vermeer, Milan, etc. I actually find AMD naming mildly confusing Zen 3 Ryzen 5 5600x (Vermeer). The actual break down is quite simple and described on their website: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/processor-numbers.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/processor... tldr; Intel processors are numbered like 13900K (13th gen) the first 1-2 digits are the generation. So 9800 is 9th gen 10850K is 10th gen.

jerrygenser 4y ago

Have you tried a power limited version of Intel to compare? I have my 7700x limited to 65w with very little performance loss -- it's very easy with eco mode. I've seen lot of benchmarks with 7000 series chips on eco mode but not so much on Intel side. These chips really should have been power limited with a little less multicore performance instead of being power drains.

onli 4y ago
Hey, kind of. I'm just collecting benchmark results to create a global ranking (global as in spanning release generations), not benchmarking myself. I saw that the eco mode of the AMD processors saw some attention, and then in the 13000 reviews as well. https://www.computerbase.de/2022-10/intel-core-i9-13900k-i7-13700-i5-13600k-test/2/#abschnitt_leistung_in_apps_bei_reduzierter_tdp https://www.computerbase.de/2022-10/intel-core-i9-13900k-i7-... would be one example.