5 ms·

Honestly, the past 5-ish years of Intel generations have blended together for me. I'm not even sure if they've already released a new one this year or what it m

by Sakos 4y ago

Honestly, the past 5-ish years of Intel generations have blended together for me. I'm not even sure if they've already released a new one this year or what it might be called. Everything is some kind of Lake, they're all i3, i5, i7, i9, and they have some weird x000 naming scheme (then there are the utterly indecipherable xx00nn ones). Am I the only one who prefers the simplicity of Zen 1, 2, 3, 4?

onli 4y ago
On the desktop side Intel's naming is not so bad. We are at 13000 now, 12000 was before, 14000 follows. They call it 13th gen accordingly, which is incorrect but memorable. Zen isn't all that better. Sure, Zen 1, 2, ... seems clearer, but can you tell me on the top of your head which processor has which architecture? Including nice outliers like the Ryzen 5 1600 AF? Now do the same for the mobile processors, the naming there is a total clusterfuck. Also, maybe a bit more on topic: The current processor generation is actually nice and gives a real performance increase. Enough so that all three (i5-13600K, i7-13700K and i9-13900K) take the top three positions in my meta benchmark (for games). AMD follows right behind that (and needs less energy to do so), so it's really a good race now, just like the article concludes.
- Sakos 4y ago
  > but can you tell me on the top of your head which processor has which architecture? Not sure how that's relevant. By name, I have no idea if Cannon Lake is before or after Skylake. I only know because I've heard of Skylake longer than Cannon Lake. I'd have no idea how to place any of the post-Skylake architectures amongst each other chronologically or performance-wise. I know that Zen 1 is older then Zen 3, because that's how the naming scheme works. The same way I know that the PS5 came after the PS4. It's like the Xbox bullshit. The only reason why I know Xbox One is newer than 360 is because I'm a gamer who pays way too much attention to this shit.
  - jl6 4y ago
    The confusion is intentional. It’s easier to sell an old thing if the customer can’t tell it’s an old thing, and a lot easier if they also don’t get any useful information about how the product compares to its competitors.
    - acdha 4y ago
      I’d be really surprised if this wasn’t the exact reason. When you go to Costco, Walmart, etc. you’ll see “Intel i7” in huge letters, but the actual generation might not even be listed somewhere you can see without opening the box.
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    > I know that Zen 1 is older then Zen 3, because that's how the naming scheme works. I think GP's point is that "zen" is the architecture, same as some random lake. Sure, 2 comes before three, whereas it's not clear whether the sky comes before the tiger. Whereas the AMD model number is 5600, say. But then you have interesting things, like 5500U mobile parts which are actually "zen 2+" and others, like the 5560U which are "zen 3". This was an issue for me last year when attempting to jump on the "zen 3 bandwagon", but having to look up "enterprise laptop" models, which wouldn't specify which kind of zen the cpu was, only some xyz number. Most were 4xxx, so I knew those were "mobile zen 2", but I almost picked one of the "zen 2+" 5xxx models. I haven't followed things that closely, but I'm pretty confident that an intel Xyyy is "gen X". And, usually, marketing copy says i5-Xyyy.
    - goosedragons 4y ago
      It's not always. For example "8th gen" Intel has both Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake CPUs, some gens have a mix of 14nm CPUs for desktop and 10nm for Mobile. It's honestly pretty confusing as to which Lake follows what at this point as they are slight refinements of slight refinements. AMD is at least making it so the second digit will indicate architecture (the first will be year released).
      - vladvasiliu 4y ago
        I did not know that about Intel. Guess I'm lucky I wasn't in the market for a new PC at that time... Do they at least all support Windows 11, since I think "gen 8" is the first one officially supported? > AMD is at least making it so the second digit will indicate architecture (the first will be year released). Unfortunately, that's not always the case. See, for example, the Ryzen 5 5500U which is a zen 2 part and the 5560U which is a zen 3 part. The architecture is quite different, too: the first being a 2x3 configuration, while the second is 1x6. The Zen 3 one was also released as a 54xx "PRO" version. See [1] note 1. They were both released in January 2021, but then you have the Ryzen 5 4680U which was released later, in April 2021, while being a zen 2. As a matter of fact, I'm quite sure the second digit is the model's place in the range. See 3700 desktop parts, which are zen 2, and 5700 ones which are zen 3. Moreover, to your point about differences between desktop and laptop parts, I've always considered that a given. Zen 2 desktop parts already had pci-e 4, whereas the zen 3 laptop ones only had pci-e 3, even the higher end ones. The first mobile parts to have pci-e 4 seem to be the 6xxx models. --- [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2#Lucienne_(5000_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2#Lucienne_(5000_series) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_3#Cezanne_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_3#Cezanne_2
  - spicymaki 4y ago
    Names like Skylake and Cannon Lake are just codenames for the architecture. AMD does the same thing with Matisse, Rome, Vermeer, Milan, etc. I actually find AMD naming mildly confusing Zen 3 Ryzen 5 5600x (Vermeer). The actual break down is quite simple and described on their website: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/processor-numbers.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/processor... tldr; Intel processors are numbered like 13900K (13th gen) the first 1-2 digits are the generation. So 9800 is 9th gen 10850K is 10th gen.
- jerrygenser 4y ago
  Have you tried a power limited version of Intel to compare? I have my 7700x limited to 65w with very little performance loss -- it's very easy with eco mode. I've seen lot of benchmarks with 7000 series chips on eco mode but not so much on Intel side. These chips really should have been power limited with a little less multicore performance instead of being power drains.
  - onli 4y ago
    Hey, kind of. I'm just collecting benchmark results to create a global ranking (global as in spanning release generations), not benchmarking myself. I saw that the eco mode of the AMD processors saw some attention, and then in the 13000 reviews as well. https://www.computerbase.de/2022-10/intel-core-i9-13900k-i7-13700-i5-13600k-test/2/#abschnitt_leistung_in_apps_bei_reduzierter_tdp https://www.computerbase.de/2022-10/intel-core-i9-13900k-i7-... would be one example.
adrian_b 4y ago
To be fair, Intel also uses "13th generation Core" instead of Raptor Lake, "12th generation Core" instead of Alder Lake, "6th Generation Core" instead of Skylake, and so on, while AMD also has meaningless code names that are used for products before launch, e.g. Raphael for Zen 4, Vermeer for Zen 3, Matisse for Zen 2, Pinnacle Ridge for Zen 1+, Summit Ridge for Zen 1. In both cases, the shorter and easier to remember names have won in the conscience of most of the public, i.e. it is easier to remember Zen 2 than Matisse, but it is easier to remember which was Kaby Lake instead of which was the 7th Generation Core. Because both companies launch products typically every year, I would prefer something like Intel Core 2017 instead of Coffee Lake and AMD Zen 2022 instead of Zen 4.
sys_64738 4y ago
This is what happened when a company has marketing departments making such decisions unchecked. Sun had the same problem with their idiot marketing dept naming the Sun Niagra systems bizarre names like CoolThreads 1000 and systems with numbers like 5420. Larry came in and said it was stupid and to name them precisely what they were so they became T3-1, T4-2, etc. to indicate the chip generation and the number of chips on the system board.
- mark-r 4y ago
  It's a good thing they fixed that problem and became the powerhouse that they are today. </sarcasm>
BirAdam 4y ago
The Intel "core" series is just stale branding. Really stale branding. That name started being used in 2006 for an iteration of the Intel P6 microarchitecture (first implemented in 1995 with the Pentium Pro). Intel's NetBurst (Pentium 4) wasn't great, so they brought something old back, made improvements, made it dual core, and we had the Intel Core Duo. They then did the usual licensing back and forth with AMD for AMD64, and they released the Core 2 (Penryn) just a little later in the same year. The Core iN series started with the Nehalem microarchitecture in late 2008. This was a major improvement over, but still an iteration on, P6. However modest these initial changes were, we are now so far removed from those earlier designs that carrying the "core" branding is just bad. Intel really needs refreshed branding. They should also do away with the largely irrelevant numbers and letters that they shove on the end of their CPU family names.nI would even be okay with just "Intel 8core 3.6gHz 2020" and so on, but Intel tends to prefer cringe apparently.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  With the way Intel segments CPUs you need the stupid numbers. "Intel 8-core 3.6GHz 2020 no integrated GPU, no ECC with unlocked multiplier" is a bit of a mouthful.
  - BirAdam 4y ago
    That's a really fair point. I support you could do something like: i82020GEM or i82020NNN so you have intel 8 core, 2020, GPU, ECC, multiplier or without... then we're back to really bad clusters of numbers and letters, but at least in that scenario it has meaning.
    - selectodude 4y ago
      But anybody who can parse that without looking it up obviously cares enough to look at the current product numbering scheme and hop on over to ark.intel.com all the same.
  - Sakos 4y ago
    My biggest issue with that is I couldn't find it documented anywhere and it feels like they come up with new suffixes every year. I was on board with F and K, but now there's a bunch of others that I just have no clue what they mean.
ur-whale 4y ago
Agree that Intel naming schemes are very confusing and very few people understand them or care, even. However, AMD isn't any better ... is it a Vermeer or is it a Cezanne, a Chagall or a Milan?
- matja 4y ago
  Ryzen 5xxxG(E) or Ryzen 5 5500 -> Cezanne Ryzen 5xxx -> Vermeer Threadripper 5xxx -> Chagall EPYC xxx3 -> Milan
dannyw 4y ago
AMD will be selling laptop chips of various older generations under one name soon in order to deceive consumers who aren't paying attention: https://youtu.be/MipuN4RU4m8 https://youtu.be/MipuN4RU4m8 A 7000 series laptop chip could be Zen 4, 3, or 2...

by Sakos 4y ago

onli 4y ago

On the desktop side Intel's naming is not so bad. We are at 13000 now, 12000 was before, 14000 follows. They call it 13th gen accordingly, which is incorrect but memorable. Zen isn't all that better. Sure, Zen 1, 2, ... seems clearer, but can you tell me on the top of your head which processor has which architecture? Including nice outliers like the Ryzen 5 1600 AF? Now do the same for the mobile processors, the naming there is a total clusterfuck. Also, maybe a bit more on topic: The current processor generation is actually nice and gives a real performance increase. Enough so that all three (i5-13600K, i7-13700K and i9-13900K) take the top three positions in my meta benchmark (for games). AMD follows right behind that (and needs less energy to do so), so it's really a good race now, just like the article concludes.

Sakos 4y ago
> but can you tell me on the top of your head which processor has which architecture? Not sure how that's relevant. By name, I have no idea if Cannon Lake is before or after Skylake. I only know because I've heard of Skylake longer than Cannon Lake. I'd have no idea how to place any of the post-Skylake architectures amongst each other chronologically or performance-wise. I know that Zen 1 is older then Zen 3, because that's how the naming scheme works. The same way I know that the PS5 came after the PS4. It's like the Xbox bullshit. The only reason why I know Xbox One is newer than 360 is because I'm a gamer who pays way too much attention to this shit.
- jl6 4y ago
  The confusion is intentional. It’s easier to sell an old thing if the customer can’t tell it’s an old thing, and a lot easier if they also don’t get any useful information about how the product compares to its competitors.
  - acdha 4y ago
    I’d be really surprised if this wasn’t the exact reason. When you go to Costco, Walmart, etc. you’ll see “Intel i7” in huge letters, but the actual generation might not even be listed somewhere you can see without opening the box.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  > I know that Zen 1 is older then Zen 3, because that's how the naming scheme works. I think GP's point is that "zen" is the architecture, same as some random lake. Sure, 2 comes before three, whereas it's not clear whether the sky comes before the tiger. Whereas the AMD model number is 5600, say. But then you have interesting things, like 5500U mobile parts which are actually "zen 2+" and others, like the 5560U which are "zen 3". This was an issue for me last year when attempting to jump on the "zen 3 bandwagon", but having to look up "enterprise laptop" models, which wouldn't specify which kind of zen the cpu was, only some xyz number. Most were 4xxx, so I knew those were "mobile zen 2", but I almost picked one of the "zen 2+" 5xxx models. I haven't followed things that closely, but I'm pretty confident that an intel Xyyy is "gen X". And, usually, marketing copy says i5-Xyyy.
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    It's not always. For example "8th gen" Intel has both Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake CPUs, some gens have a mix of 14nm CPUs for desktop and 10nm for Mobile. It's honestly pretty confusing as to which Lake follows what at this point as they are slight refinements of slight refinements. AMD is at least making it so the second digit will indicate architecture (the first will be year released).
    - vladvasiliu 4y ago
      I did not know that about Intel. Guess I'm lucky I wasn't in the market for a new PC at that time... Do they at least all support Windows 11, since I think "gen 8" is the first one officially supported? > AMD is at least making it so the second digit will indicate architecture (the first will be year released). Unfortunately, that's not always the case. See, for example, the Ryzen 5 5500U which is a zen 2 part and the 5560U which is a zen 3 part. The architecture is quite different, too: the first being a 2x3 configuration, while the second is 1x6. The Zen 3 one was also released as a 54xx "PRO" version. See [1] note 1. They were both released in January 2021, but then you have the Ryzen 5 4680U which was released later, in April 2021, while being a zen 2. As a matter of fact, I'm quite sure the second digit is the model's place in the range. See 3700 desktop parts, which are zen 2, and 5700 ones which are zen 3. Moreover, to your point about differences between desktop and laptop parts, I've always considered that a given. Zen 2 desktop parts already had pci-e 4, whereas the zen 3 laptop ones only had pci-e 3, even the higher end ones. The first mobile parts to have pci-e 4 seem to be the 6xxx models. --- [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2#Lucienne_(5000_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2#Lucienne_(5000_series) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_3#Cezanne_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_3#Cezanne_2
- spicymaki 4y ago
  Names like Skylake and Cannon Lake are just codenames for the architecture. AMD does the same thing with Matisse, Rome, Vermeer, Milan, etc. I actually find AMD naming mildly confusing Zen 3 Ryzen 5 5600x (Vermeer). The actual break down is quite simple and described on their website: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/processor-numbers.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/processor... tldr; Intel processors are numbered like 13900K (13th gen) the first 1-2 digits are the generation. So 9800 is 9th gen 10850K is 10th gen.
jerrygenser 4y ago
Have you tried a power limited version of Intel to compare? I have my 7700x limited to 65w with very little performance loss -- it's very easy with eco mode. I've seen lot of benchmarks with 7000 series chips on eco mode but not so much on Intel side. These chips really should have been power limited with a little less multicore performance instead of being power drains.
- onli 4y ago
  Hey, kind of. I'm just collecting benchmark results to create a global ranking (global as in spanning release generations), not benchmarking myself. I saw that the eco mode of the AMD processors saw some attention, and then in the 13000 reviews as well. https://www.computerbase.de/2022-10/intel-core-i9-13900k-i7-13700-i5-13600k-test/2/#abschnitt_leistung_in_apps_bei_reduzierter_tdp https://www.computerbase.de/2022-10/intel-core-i9-13900k-i7-... would be one example.

adrian_b 4y ago

To be fair, Intel also uses "13th generation Core" instead of Raptor Lake, "12th generation Core" instead of Alder Lake, "6th Generation Core" instead of Skylake, and so on, while AMD also has meaningless code names that are used for products before launch, e.g. Raphael for Zen 4, Vermeer for Zen 3, Matisse for Zen 2, Pinnacle Ridge for Zen 1+, Summit Ridge for Zen 1. In both cases, the shorter and easier to remember names have won in the conscience of most of the public, i.e. it is easier to remember Zen 2 than Matisse, but it is easier to remember which was Kaby Lake instead of which was the 7th Generation Core. Because both companies launch products typically every year, I would prefer something like Intel Core 2017 instead of Coffee Lake and AMD Zen 2022 instead of Zen 4.

sys_64738 4y ago

This is what happened when a company has marketing departments making such decisions unchecked. Sun had the same problem with their idiot marketing dept naming the Sun Niagra systems bizarre names like CoolThreads 1000 and systems with numbers like 5420. Larry came in and said it was stupid and to name them precisely what they were so they became T3-1, T4-2, etc. to indicate the chip generation and the number of chips on the system board.

mark-r 4y ago
It's a good thing they fixed that problem and became the powerhouse that they are today. </sarcasm>

BirAdam 4y ago

The Intel "core" series is just stale branding. Really stale branding. That name started being used in 2006 for an iteration of the Intel P6 microarchitecture (first implemented in 1995 with the Pentium Pro). Intel's NetBurst (Pentium 4) wasn't great, so they brought something old back, made improvements, made it dual core, and we had the Intel Core Duo. They then did the usual licensing back and forth with AMD for AMD64, and they released the Core 2 (Penryn) just a little later in the same year. The Core iN series started with the Nehalem microarchitecture in late 2008. This was a major improvement over, but still an iteration on, P6. However modest these initial changes were, we are now so far removed from those earlier designs that carrying the "core" branding is just bad. Intel really needs refreshed branding. They should also do away with the largely irrelevant numbers and letters that they shove on the end of their CPU family names.nI would even be okay with just "Intel 8core 3.6gHz 2020" and so on, but Intel tends to prefer cringe apparently.

goosedragons 4y ago
With the way Intel segments CPUs you need the stupid numbers. "Intel 8-core 3.6GHz 2020 no integrated GPU, no ECC with unlocked multiplier" is a bit of a mouthful.
- BirAdam 4y ago
  That's a really fair point. I support you could do something like: i82020GEM or i82020NNN so you have intel 8 core, 2020, GPU, ECC, multiplier or without... then we're back to really bad clusters of numbers and letters, but at least in that scenario it has meaning.
  - selectodude 4y ago
    But anybody who can parse that without looking it up obviously cares enough to look at the current product numbering scheme and hop on over to ark.intel.com all the same.
- Sakos 4y ago
  My biggest issue with that is I couldn't find it documented anywhere and it feels like they come up with new suffixes every year. I was on board with F and K, but now there's a bunch of others that I just have no clue what they mean.

ur-whale 4y ago

Agree that Intel naming schemes are very confusing and very few people understand them or care, even. However, AMD isn't any better ... is it a Vermeer or is it a Cezanne, a Chagall or a Milan?

matja 4y ago
Ryzen 5xxxG(E) or Ryzen 5 5500 -> Cezanne Ryzen 5xxx -> Vermeer Threadripper 5xxx -> Chagall EPYC xxx3 -> Milan

dannyw 4y ago

AMD will be selling laptop chips of various older generations under one name soon in order to deceive consumers who aren't paying attention: https://youtu.be/MipuN4RU4m8 https://youtu.be/MipuN4RU4m8 A 7000 series laptop chip could be Zen 4, 3, or 2...