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Lots of comments on how hackathons and late night sessions were fond memories for people. The difference is those events were chosen. If you are forced to rema
by bern4444 4y ago
Lots of comments on how hackathons and late night sessions were fond memories for people.
The difference is those events were chosen. If you are forced to remain at your company (due to visa issues for example) being forced by your CEO to stay at work until 1am is atrocious.
This is not a profession where being at the office this late is the norm and it's not typical for the environment.
Twitter is not a startup in any way shape or form. It was clearly just valued at 44 billion dollars, no startup is worth that much ;).
This is an executive abusing his power, forcing individuals to do as they say. There is little choice and free will being exercised.
Maybe some of the people do want to be there and are happy to do so; I don't believe this is the case. It is naive to think it would be.
Hackathons, staying up late working on a passion or hobby by choice can be fun. Being forced to for your profession and by the new CEO who has fired and caused over 70% of the company to leave doesn't fall under that category.
- nathanaldensr 4y agoThe fact that so many people so willingly give in to it is why sociopaths rule us all.
- philosopher1234 4y agoWe are born dependent and vulnerable. If our parents are cruel we contort ourselves to love them anyways, so that they will keep feeding us. Then we go into the world and find we are still contorted. The world seems to be full of these people. It’s hard to see a way out.
- public_defender 4y agoNot sure why you're being downvoted. "Just resist psychopaths" is an ableist, reductive paradigm. Of course many people can't just resist. People have families, care responsibilities, and many are indeed conditioned to accommodate.
- capitalsigma 4y agoWould you say that it's also ableist to ask people to "just resist fascism"? After all, many people are indeed conditioned to accommodate fascism. Or pick another -ism you prefer.
- bmn__ 4y agoYes, that hews into the same notch. One cannot simply resist any form of oppression, there were/are only a lucky few who had the motivation, ability and resources to do so. If you are one of those and would gladly take a fight against the world to make it better, then be mindful to not hastily generalise from your position.
- quonn 4y agoCamus and Sartre would like a word. I prefer their worldview. By your own argument I don‘t even need to give a good reason. I‘m not able to give a good reason, I prefer their philosophy of being responsible based on your notion of not having the ability to see it any different.
- grepLeigh 4y agoTherapy can help break this mindset and cycle. Highly recommended if you feel stuck, or like your past is shaping your future in a way you don't want. Therapy is like having a personal trainer for your mental fitness. https://twitter.com/Theholisticpsyc/status/1594159675586793473?t=vsrhPYfYZEvPK3hN6SzRPA&s=19 https://twitter.com/Theholisticpsyc/status/15941596755867934...
- philosopher1234 4y agoI agree. psychoanalysis has saved my life. But on a national scale? If therapy is the solution, we are sorely lacking in therapists.
- grepLeigh 4y agoAgree - I wish I could pick how my taxes were allocated at a granular level. Therapy and other forms of mental health/wellbeing support would be at the top. I reckon history will look back at last 20 years as a "Hopelessness epidemic" with social/environmental causes as complex as current obesity epidemic in the US.
- bogomipz 4y agoDo you have any recommendations for learning about psychoanalysis and its benefits? I'm curious what led to you to psychoanalysis over other techniques or approaches in the psychology discipline.
- philosopher1234 4y agoNote: I added my email to my profile after writing this. Feel free to reach out if you’re curious. I have a deep love for psychoanalysis. I stumbled upon it by chance. I don’t know of a great patient introduction, but I linked some explainers on the ideas below. Psychoanalysis as I understand it is about understanding your relationship patterns and changing them. The analysis I’m in works through free association, I speak what’s on my mind (including my most disgusting or hateful thoughts, criticisms of my therapist, doubts…) and my analyst mostly just listens, but occasionally pokes and prods, and sometimes opines. His role is partly to be a canvas against which my relationship patterns can present and partly to be an investigator trying to notice and observe behaviors of mine I might not be totally aware of. It’s not just a matter of knowledge. Change in analysis seems to come through a felt experience, through the relationship with the analyst. I find myself talking and talking and one day I say something that I’ve known my whole life and yet never really said, and I start to connect it to all sorts of forgotten feelings, and it becomes a little less weighty, unstuck in time. Because of my work in analysis I have developed a now 4 year long romantic relationship, several close friends, and become happier at work. But I still have lots of dissatisfaction and lack of meaning (in those same relationships and work) and that is what I spend most of my time talking about currently. I’ve heard someone say psychoanalysis is about making you more free. Not in the civil liberties sense, but in a way that is almost a bit painful, as you will have more responsibility. Personally I also have found the theory behind it rich and deeply insightful. Reading some of Freud (and others, like winnicott) has felt like something clicking in my head about people that I’ve wanted to understand for a long time. If you like twitter you could try @jonathanshedler (he has a book too[1]) or @nyctherapist. Nancy McWilliams (Psychoanalytic Diagnosis) is supposed to be good if you want to understand the theory. I’ve actually really liked reading the original Freud. I also hear good things about Mitchell’s Freud and Beyond. Less clinically oriented (and more lacanian) I also like the Why Theory? Podcast. But it really is less focused on psychological insight. [1] https://jonathanshedler.com/PDFs/Shedler%20(2006)%20That%20was%20then,%20this%20is%20now%20R9.pdf https://jonathanshedler.com/PDFs/Shedler%20(2006)%20That%20w...
- techolic 4y agoJust an example: if you hold an L visa, your only other option is packing your stuff and going back to your home country.
- kamaal 4y agoIt's not just L visa(I was on L a few years back, and returned back). Let's be honest this is far from what people call slavery. They are being paid multiples of six digit salaries, RSUs and work in one of the most happening tech ecosystems of the world. I would love to be a part of something like this. Heck most of us would love to be a part of something like. I kind of envy those guys working on these projects. I hope I was the one there.
- spoils19 4y agoAgreed. I've missed multiple deaths in the family, important events with friends and sacrificed a large chunk of my life to be in one of the most happening tech ecosystems in the world. Even when I was eventually fired due to burn out, I walked away thinking to myself: "I still envy the people in that office, working hard for that CEO".
- bsg75 4y agoEnvy for others working to burnout for some other person? How sad. A CEO is just a title, often for someone who’s can’t get anything done independently. Musk is an example. He builds nothing, actual engineers build, actual salespeople sell.
- kamaal 4y ago
- timeon 4y agoThis reminds me Stockholm Syndrome.
- birksherty 4y ago> Heck most of us would love to be a part of something like. Nope. At 1 AM? Nope. Nobody would be in office at 1 AM by choice, they had to for the paycheck.
- wskish 4y agoI didn't quite follow, what are folks giving into?
- wskish 4y agoThere is a more simple explanation: that these are the folks who actually want to go "hardcore" and build to some actual vision.
- memish 4y agoThat's not an acceptable explanation. They need to be assigned an acceptable one. As you can see, there are many volunteers assigning them.
- wskish 4y agosorry I dont quite understand what you mean by "acceptable one" and "give them one". Which one are you referring to?
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- anon7725 4y agoAt this point in my life and career, I wouldn’t be in that room. And I’m sure some people are not there by choice. But I’m also sure this is the highlight of many in this photo’s career so far.
- mygentys 4y ago
- dmitrybrant 4y agoAnd what exactly is the vision? Elon keeps changing it by the day. Twitter itself has already been built. What new thing would they be building? A slightly different content moderation system? Slightly tweaked steps for verifying accounts? I'm not sure I see anything hardcore about any of this.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- phendrenad2 4y agoI've never seen an optional hackathon that didn't come with serious "contribute or else" vibes.
- gizmo385 4y agoI’m the exact opposite. I’ve never seen a hackathon with that mentality and you should avoid hackathons that guilt you into working beyond your limits
- wwkeyboard 4y agoIt's the cost of failure that's different. If you loose a hackathon everyone gets a high five and goes home empty handed. If you loose at your job(in the US) you have no income, a very high COBRA payment, and possibly a major visa problem. All of which are a fantastic way to start a recession.
- spoils19 4y agoIt's fairly common, actually, to have completely optional hackathons. I guess it would depend on the social circles you hang around, or if you falsely believe that there is actually an "or else" consequence.
- seba_dos1 4y agoHackathons are always completely optional and rather inconsequential. When they're not, they're called "exploitation" instead.
- RickJWagner 4y agoYeah, true. All-hands-on-deck after hours work is ALWAYS done under duress.
- mlindner 4y agoI really don't agree with what you're saying here. Why do you automatically assume that every single one of these people is there unwillingly? Why would they pose for the camera with Elon with smiles on their faces? You want to claim that not only are they there unwillingly that they're lying to everyone about their emotions as well. They had the option of leaving the company with a 3 month severance pay. And no H-1B is not the reason. You can find new jobs under an H-1B. You're not restricted to a single company and can change companies.
- memish 4y agoAnd why are they assuming they are H-1Bs in the first place, based on the photo? They can tell immigration status based on what exactly?