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What studies or science is there that trans isn’t just a mental condition? I don’t get just accepting the sex you’re born as. It certainly seems to me, that ra

What studies or science is there that trans isn’t just a mental condition? I don’t get just accepting the sex you’re born as. It certainly seems to me, that rather than be a more effeminate male, instead they want to be in the gender roles and be the “role” of a woman (or vice versa).

Spivak 4y ago
You won’t find such studies because it is! Or more accurately gender dysphoria is a mental disorder. Just because it’s in the mind doesn’t make it not a real thing. Since we’re on a programming forum maybe a good metaphor would be it’s something that’s in your firmware. Aside: Since in real life people use sex and gender interchangeably I’m gonna do that too and just refer to chromosomes directly when needed. > I don’t get just accepting the sex you’re born as. When you actually survey trans people they do try really really hard to be the sex that usually goes with their chromosomes. But empirically it doesn’t work out. The distress caused by trying drives a worryingly high percentage of them to attempt suicide. I know you didn’t mean it this way but what you said was right. Trans people need to accept the sex they were born as and transition if they want to live happier healthier lives. People in the lgbt community call this acceptance “coming out to yourself” or “your egg cracking.” > It certainly seems to me, that rather than be a more effeminate male… Okay so I think you’ve almost got it but have some wires crossed. So this is a bit simplistic but for the purposes of this lets classify people as either masculine or feminine and men or women. You’re probably used to masculine women being called “tomboys” or “butches.” You can do the opposite too with “tomgirls” and “femboys.” These are expressions of gender. You can kind of think of them as aesthetics but more central and important to the individual. Like for example most men would typically feel not themselves or like they were wearing a costume if they dressed feminine. Okay so gender roles! Men take out the trash, women do the cleaning, men are the breadwinners, women are the caregivers, boys like rockets, girls like dolls, yada yada. These are mostly, but not entirely, cultural. Lgbt folks are pretty darn anti gender roles in general because they stop making sense in same sex couples and trans people prior to transitioning feel put in a box, and not only that but the wrong box which triggers their dysphoria. So trying to read between the lines here I think again you’re right. Trans women aren’t feminine men, and would like to be treated just like any other women. But the difference is that this treatment is totally separate from the individual’s gender expression or the roles they wish to take on. Trans women can be feminine, masculine, both, or neither and they can take on traditional gender roles or completely ignore them.
- boredhedgehog 4y ago
  But aren't preconceptions about gender stereotypes implicit in "coming out"? How would a man realize that he is, in fact, a woman, without the idea that there are certain feelings only a woman can feel?
  - xcrunner529 4y ago
    Right. Like what I mean to say is it seems you are implicitly trying to fulfill a man-made role and changing your biological body in the process. That seems a bit overboard. Just act how you want.

Spivak 4y ago

You won’t find such studies because it is! Or more accurately gender dysphoria is a mental disorder. Just because it’s in the mind doesn’t make it not a real thing. Since we’re on a programming forum maybe a good metaphor would be it’s something that’s in your firmware. Aside: Since in real life people use sex and gender interchangeably I’m gonna do that too and just refer to chromosomes directly when needed. > I don’t get just accepting the sex you’re born as. When you actually survey trans people they do try really really hard to be the sex that usually goes with their chromosomes. But empirically it doesn’t work out. The distress caused by trying drives a worryingly high percentage of them to attempt suicide. I know you didn’t mean it this way but what you said was right. Trans people need to accept the sex they were born as and transition if they want to live happier healthier lives. People in the lgbt community call this acceptance “coming out to yourself” or “your egg cracking.” > It certainly seems to me, that rather than be a more effeminate male… Okay so I think you’ve almost got it but have some wires crossed. So this is a bit simplistic but for the purposes of this lets classify people as either masculine or feminine and men or women. You’re probably used to masculine women being called “tomboys” or “butches.” You can do the opposite too with “tomgirls” and “femboys.” These are expressions of gender. You can kind of think of them as aesthetics but more central and important to the individual. Like for example most men would typically feel not themselves or like they were wearing a costume if they dressed feminine. Okay so gender roles! Men take out the trash, women do the cleaning, men are the breadwinners, women are the caregivers, boys like rockets, girls like dolls, yada yada. These are mostly, but not entirely, cultural. Lgbt folks are pretty darn anti gender roles in general because they stop making sense in same sex couples and trans people prior to transitioning feel put in a box, and not only that but the wrong box which triggers their dysphoria. So trying to read between the lines here I think again you’re right. Trans women aren’t feminine men, and would like to be treated just like any other women. But the difference is that this treatment is totally separate from the individual’s gender expression or the roles they wish to take on. Trans women can be feminine, masculine, both, or neither and they can take on traditional gender roles or completely ignore them.

boredhedgehog 4y ago
But aren't preconceptions about gender stereotypes implicit in "coming out"? How would a man realize that he is, in fact, a woman, without the idea that there are certain feelings only a woman can feel?
- xcrunner529 4y ago
  Right. Like what I mean to say is it seems you are implicitly trying to fulfill a man-made role and changing your biological body in the process. That seems a bit overboard. Just act how you want.