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The problem is people don't appreciate the new patterns you use with an EV. I pay zero for my fueling because I do it at work or a local free level 2 charger w

The problem is people don't appreciate the new patterns you use with an EV. I pay zero for my fueling because I do it at work or a local free level 2 charger where I'll drop it off then walk home and do other things for a few hours and come back. I'm in an apartment btw. It's not the same as pulling up to a gas station but it's just about as easy, the cars handle better and it's a smoother ride. You might have to be a little cheap to bother to logistically coordinate free charging, but when I drove a gas car I never got free fuel. It's pretty remarkable that it's an option. Also they're way cheaper to maintain. I literally do not know where I'd even take my EV to get it repaired because its never happened. I'm on year 5 of EV driving btw. People believing in FUD over EVs, I have given up on. Whatever, be wrong, it's fine. Also, I don't like Teslas. There's lots of great options on the market, Hyundai and Kia's lineup are fine choices. I'm considering an Ioniq 6 myself, probably mid-next year just to make sure there's no issues.

textbookrental 4y ago
There is zero chance that everyone with a car today could get free charging at work.
- kristopolous 4y ago
  Ok, so what? Why am I on the hook for single handidly solving the economics of global EV fueling in a tiny reply window, in this conversation, in order to defend my preference? I haven't had to pay for fuel in half a decade. Theoretical abstractions and rhetorical slights of hand don't change that. You can do whatever the heck you want.
  - duxup 4y ago
    Perhaps that explains why >people don't appreciate the new patterns you use with an EV The pattern you describe is not available.
    - kristopolous 4y ago
      Right, so what? Some people own homes and I can't do what they do. Others live close to a supercharger and I can't do that. Some work from home and there's no charger at the office and so they can't do what I do. This is like if I said I charge my smartphone on my nightstand when I go to sleep and you say "aha, what about people without nightstands! Checkmate!" A diversity of exacting detail doesn't make something infeasible. We still all say eat meals or communicate with words despite vast differences in how these things look and operate among all of humanity Again it's not my personal responsibility to itemize all theoretical dimensions here.
      - duxup 4y ago
        I don’t understand why you would be concerned why people don’t appreciate the pattern. And then not seem to understand why they wouldn’t…
        kristopolous 4y ago
        There's new patterns. That's the point. It's that you can't define one system in another's terms. Someone who lives in say Tokyo would probably see private car ownership as incredibly expensive and inconvenient while someone living in rural Montana probably can't conceive of how to live their life using public transit. An inability to imagine new ways is inherent to any system change. I'm sure people can adapt just like I'm sure someone from Montana can get used to using trains if they went to Tokyo. I don't know all the patterns but I've got faith that people can modify their behaviors as required by at least this amount. But I get it. You can't really see it until you do it and then it's obvious and easy.
  - textbookrental 4y ago
    I wouldn't worry too much about it. There is zero chance you could solve any part of global ev fueling.
    - kristopolous 4y ago
      That part is certainly not true. I've worked pretty extensively with OCPI, that crazy nightmare. Read me bitch about it over 4 years ago https://kristopolous.medium.com/authorizing-a-charge-with-ocpi-fd0e4a71487a https://kristopolous.medium.com/authorizing-a-charge-with-oc... I had a bunch of conversations after that with people at greenlots, chargepoint, evgo, blink, and flo about bringing sanity into things ... The industry is smaller than you think here and my impact is nonzero. Near zero, but certainly nonzero!
cardy31 4y ago
If you’re considering it for next year then get on a wait list now. Where I live the Ioniq 5 wait times are 2-3 years.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- zzzeek 4y ago
  Where's that? I just got one, it took some work calling dealers for a few weeks, but you can't order them, you have to find the one you want on the lot. All dealers have their inventories on their website and Hyundai's site has a master search for all of them. The exact car I wanted showed up, the dealer had it, so I had to drive from NY to PA to pick it up. I hired a car transport to bring it to my house the next day. So it took me a little less than a month to get it. In the tri state area there's a good deal of ioniqs in stock.
carcostthrow 4y ago
My ICE car right now costs $1100 in insurance. For me to insure an 2022 Acura NSX is $1500 a year to the same level. A Bolt to be insured to the exact same level is $$4200 a year. A Tesla Model 3 would ring me $5700 a year. A Porsche Taycan is $7300 a year. None of these are as expensive as the NSX. And the cost for me to install the additional circuits to the garage went up significantly since my last quote; it's now $2500 to run an additional circuit into the garage. I don't know what it would cost to upgrade the mains panel as well if it's needed (I have only a 100A) but I've heard it's averaging about $5000 or so. So yeah... not exactly FUD at least from where I'm standing.
- kristopolous 4y ago
  That's weird. I pay $350/yr in insurance. I hop insurance providers every couple years. That's a separate trick though. I had to go check since I round it down to 0 in my head. My costs went down so substantially when I switched to electric they are for all intents and purposes, effectively 0 Sorry if you can't figure it out.
  - carcostthrow 4y ago
    For me it's a substantial cost increase. My gas is only about $2000 a year and maintenance is roughly $200 a year. So roughly speaking I'd be paying $900 a year more to drive an EV then to drive an ICE. That's even before you start factoring in the higher upfront purchase price and the one time costs for upgrading the home. >Sorry if you can't figure it out. I'm honestly not sure if you're genuinely sorry if it's not working out for me, or if you're snarking.
    - kristopolous 4y ago
      It was meant to be encouraging without sounding patronizing. I'm not great at it
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- 4y ago
maigret 4y ago
That. ICE drivers don’t mind driving 20 min to refill but for god sake 30m drinking a coffee is unthinkable. And apparently none of them has spotted that recharging points are everywhere. The range expectations are also completely crazy - driving more than 2 hours without a break is just unsafe and advised against. I wonder when the GP even goes to the bathroom.
- cheeze 4y ago
  While I agree that EVs make sense in a lot of cases, I feel like you're min-maxing your values here to be as beneficial as possible to EVs. Filling my (non economical, okay mileage) car takes ~5 minutes. I get ~300mi range from it. 30 minutes waiting for my car to charge up to 1/4-1/2 the mileage is a hard sell for some folks, depending on their workflow. I unfortunately can't run 240 at home, don't have ability to charge at work, and often find myself places that don't have many chargers in the area. For many, EV totally works. But to say it's 20 vs 30 minutes is a little silly, IMO. Not to mention that many people drive more than 2 hours without a break. I get that it's advised against, but I still want that ability in my car without being forced to stop.
  - csa 4y ago
    > Filling my (non economical, okay mileage) car takes ~5 minutes. I get ~300mi range from it. Your median wait to “fill up” an ev for many/most people is 0 minutes, because they do it at home. > Not to mention that many people drive more than 2 hours without a break. This is standard in teslas, it’s standard in the Ioniq 6, and it will be standard in most mass market EVs in the near future (there may be a niche market for local-only cars). EVs are only an issue for two types of folks: 1. Folks who can’t charge at home/work, and don’t have a natural place to charge while they are doing something else. Imho, this is an infrastructure issue that will be solved. 2. Folks who frequently take long road trips in a cannonball run style. Even this will be solvable with advance in battery tech (rumors are that Tesla have this tech in hand). 500-600 mile ranges with reasonable battery weight will be a thing.
- skeletal88 4y ago
  What? Driving 20 min to fill the tank? Who and where does that? I fill it in a few minutes on the way from work to home.

textbookrental 4y ago

There is zero chance that everyone with a car today could get free charging at work.

kristopolous 4y ago
Ok, so what? Why am I on the hook for single handidly solving the economics of global EV fueling in a tiny reply window, in this conversation, in order to defend my preference? I haven't had to pay for fuel in half a decade. Theoretical abstractions and rhetorical slights of hand don't change that. You can do whatever the heck you want.
- duxup 4y ago
  Perhaps that explains why >people don't appreciate the new patterns you use with an EV The pattern you describe is not available.
  - kristopolous 4y ago
    Right, so what? Some people own homes and I can't do what they do. Others live close to a supercharger and I can't do that. Some work from home and there's no charger at the office and so they can't do what I do. This is like if I said I charge my smartphone on my nightstand when I go to sleep and you say "aha, what about people without nightstands! Checkmate!" A diversity of exacting detail doesn't make something infeasible. We still all say eat meals or communicate with words despite vast differences in how these things look and operate among all of humanity Again it's not my personal responsibility to itemize all theoretical dimensions here.
    - duxup 4y ago
      I don’t understand why you would be concerned why people don’t appreciate the pattern. And then not seem to understand why they wouldn’t…
      - kristopolous 4y ago
        There's new patterns. That's the point. It's that you can't define one system in another's terms. Someone who lives in say Tokyo would probably see private car ownership as incredibly expensive and inconvenient while someone living in rural Montana probably can't conceive of how to live their life using public transit. An inability to imagine new ways is inherent to any system change. I'm sure people can adapt just like I'm sure someone from Montana can get used to using trains if they went to Tokyo. I don't know all the patterns but I've got faith that people can modify their behaviors as required by at least this amount. But I get it. You can't really see it until you do it and then it's obvious and easy.
- textbookrental 4y ago
  I wouldn't worry too much about it. There is zero chance you could solve any part of global ev fueling.
  - kristopolous 4y ago
    That part is certainly not true. I've worked pretty extensively with OCPI, that crazy nightmare. Read me bitch about it over 4 years ago https://kristopolous.medium.com/authorizing-a-charge-with-ocpi-fd0e4a71487a https://kristopolous.medium.com/authorizing-a-charge-with-oc... I had a bunch of conversations after that with people at greenlots, chargepoint, evgo, blink, and flo about bringing sanity into things ... The industry is smaller than you think here and my impact is nonzero. Near zero, but certainly nonzero!

cardy31 4y ago

If you’re considering it for next year then get on a wait list now. Where I live the Ioniq 5 wait times are 2-3 years.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
zzzeek 4y ago
Where's that? I just got one, it took some work calling dealers for a few weeks, but you can't order them, you have to find the one you want on the lot. All dealers have their inventories on their website and Hyundai's site has a master search for all of them. The exact car I wanted showed up, the dealer had it, so I had to drive from NY to PA to pick it up. I hired a car transport to bring it to my house the next day. So it took me a little less than a month to get it. In the tri state area there's a good deal of ioniqs in stock.

carcostthrow 4y ago

My ICE car right now costs $1100 in insurance. For me to insure an 2022 Acura NSX is $1500 a year to the same level. A Bolt to be insured to the exact same level is $$4200 a year. A Tesla Model 3 would ring me $5700 a year. A Porsche Taycan is $7300 a year. None of these are as expensive as the NSX. And the cost for me to install the additional circuits to the garage went up significantly since my last quote; it's now $2500 to run an additional circuit into the garage. I don't know what it would cost to upgrade the mains panel as well if it's needed (I have only a 100A) but I've heard it's averaging about $5000 or so. So yeah... not exactly FUD at least from where I'm standing.

kristopolous 4y ago
That's weird. I pay $350/yr in insurance. I hop insurance providers every couple years. That's a separate trick though. I had to go check since I round it down to 0 in my head. My costs went down so substantially when I switched to electric they are for all intents and purposes, effectively 0 Sorry if you can't figure it out.
- carcostthrow 4y ago
  For me it's a substantial cost increase. My gas is only about $2000 a year and maintenance is roughly $200 a year. So roughly speaking I'd be paying $900 a year more to drive an EV then to drive an ICE. That's even before you start factoring in the higher upfront purchase price and the one time costs for upgrading the home. >Sorry if you can't figure it out. I'm honestly not sure if you're genuinely sorry if it's not working out for me, or if you're snarking.
  - kristopolous 4y ago
    It was meant to be encouraging without sounding patronizing. I'm not great at it
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
4y ago

maigret 4y ago

That. ICE drivers don’t mind driving 20 min to refill but for god sake 30m drinking a coffee is unthinkable. And apparently none of them has spotted that recharging points are everywhere. The range expectations are also completely crazy - driving more than 2 hours without a break is just unsafe and advised against. I wonder when the GP even goes to the bathroom.

cheeze 4y ago
While I agree that EVs make sense in a lot of cases, I feel like you're min-maxing your values here to be as beneficial as possible to EVs. Filling my (non economical, okay mileage) car takes ~5 minutes. I get ~300mi range from it. 30 minutes waiting for my car to charge up to 1/4-1/2 the mileage is a hard sell for some folks, depending on their workflow. I unfortunately can't run 240 at home, don't have ability to charge at work, and often find myself places that don't have many chargers in the area. For many, EV totally works. But to say it's 20 vs 30 minutes is a little silly, IMO. Not to mention that many people drive more than 2 hours without a break. I get that it's advised against, but I still want that ability in my car without being forced to stop.
- csa 4y ago
  > Filling my (non economical, okay mileage) car takes ~5 minutes. I get ~300mi range from it. Your median wait to “fill up” an ev for many/most people is 0 minutes, because they do it at home. > Not to mention that many people drive more than 2 hours without a break. This is standard in teslas, it’s standard in the Ioniq 6, and it will be standard in most mass market EVs in the near future (there may be a niche market for local-only cars). EVs are only an issue for two types of folks: 1. Folks who can’t charge at home/work, and don’t have a natural place to charge while they are doing something else. Imho, this is an infrastructure issue that will be solved. 2. Folks who frequently take long road trips in a cannonball run style. Even this will be solvable with advance in battery tech (rumors are that Tesla have this tech in hand). 500-600 mile ranges with reasonable battery weight will be a thing.
skeletal88 4y ago
What? Driving 20 min to fill the tank? Who and where does that? I fill it in a few minutes on the way from work to home.