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This makes me even more pissed about the EV tax credit changes (only US-made vehicles count). Still don’t understand how it was legal for that to become effecti

This makes me even more pissed about the EV tax credit changes (only US-made vehicles count). Still don’t understand how it was legal for that to become effective immediately in mid-August.

pengaru 4y ago
I'm glad to not have my tax dollars subsidizing import car sales personally, so fine by me to limit that EV tax credit to domestic vehicles. However, I would have preferred the fed not bailout big auto (or banks, or what's the latest socialized losses situation... Intel?). Either let it burn down when they fail or nationalize them and where's our national dividend?
- digianarchist 4y ago
  Sure but from what I've read manufacturers weren't given a lot of lead time to onshore production.
- throwaway4good 4y ago
  The Europeans spent a lot of money subsidizing Tesla sales in Europe.
  - keewee7 4y ago
    Someone really should analyze how much Norwegian, British, and EU tax payers funded Tesla in the past 10 years. I think a significant amount of their sales was subsidized by us.
- miguelazo 4y ago
  Given how much “domestic” auto manufacturers produce abroad, does it really matter at this point? I am generally in favor of industrial policy and I understand why the sourcing rule was included, but this effective immediately rule is absurd. And if the real goal is to replace more ICE cars with EVs, further limiting the already extremely limited inventory that qualifies for the credit seems very counterproductive.
  - pengaru 4y ago
    Yes, yes it matters.
originalvichy 4y ago
I have to say that in the current economic climate EVs win against petrol vehicles so esaily when it comes to running costs that the tax credit is not needed in countries with a healthy amount of resale EV market. Discounts for city toll traffic due to no emissions should still stay in place to help protect air quality but running a reliable budget EV is definitely a winning strategy.
- QuarterReptile 4y ago
  >in the current economic climate EVs win against petrol vehicles so esaily when it comes to running costs that the tax credit is not needed It doesn't really, if you're interested in keeping car costs low. I bought a compact car new in 2014, and an estimate that significantly overestimates gas costs would put my total fuel expenditures at $7000. Throw in another $400 for oil changes. As I look at EV purchase prices (comparing a Honda Civic to anything other than a Leaf), the disparity is significantly greater than that even discounting any energy costs for EVs and neglecting NPV of the extra money tied up in the vehicle.
  - originalvichy 4y ago
    Well yes by definition if your car costs are already minimal and you live in a country where petrol prices are not high then an EV makes less sense. In Northern Europe the petrol prices are, to use American measurements, around $7-9 per gallon.
throwaway4good 4y ago
I am sure it is against the wto rules; hopefully diplomatic efforts by Europe and others will have it stopped before implementation otherwise we will likely enter another unconstructive trade war.
- miguelazo 4y ago
  It already is having a big impact. Even in California they cannot find any qualifying (under the new rules) inventory available by year end, which means those people who need a new car and were counting on offsetting their federal tax burden from this year are screwed. I’m actually a fan of industrial policy (check out the book Bad Samaritans), and would generally tell the WTO to stuff it, but this was designed extremely poorly.

This makes me even more pissed about the EV tax credit changes (only US-made vehicles count). Still don’t understand how it was legal for that to become effective immediately in mid-August.

pengaru 4y ago

I'm glad to not have my tax dollars subsidizing import car sales personally, so fine by me to limit that EV tax credit to domestic vehicles. However, I would have preferred the fed not bailout big auto (or banks, or what's the latest socialized losses situation... Intel?). Either let it burn down when they fail or nationalize them and where's our national dividend?

digianarchist 4y ago
Sure but from what I've read manufacturers weren't given a lot of lead time to onshore production.
throwaway4good 4y ago
The Europeans spent a lot of money subsidizing Tesla sales in Europe.
- keewee7 4y ago
  Someone really should analyze how much Norwegian, British, and EU tax payers funded Tesla in the past 10 years. I think a significant amount of their sales was subsidized by us.
miguelazo 4y ago
Given how much “domestic” auto manufacturers produce abroad, does it really matter at this point? I am generally in favor of industrial policy and I understand why the sourcing rule was included, but this effective immediately rule is absurd. And if the real goal is to replace more ICE cars with EVs, further limiting the already extremely limited inventory that qualifies for the credit seems very counterproductive.
- pengaru 4y ago
  Yes, yes it matters.

originalvichy 4y ago

I have to say that in the current economic climate EVs win against petrol vehicles so esaily when it comes to running costs that the tax credit is not needed in countries with a healthy amount of resale EV market. Discounts for city toll traffic due to no emissions should still stay in place to help protect air quality but running a reliable budget EV is definitely a winning strategy.

QuarterReptile 4y ago
>in the current economic climate EVs win against petrol vehicles so esaily when it comes to running costs that the tax credit is not needed It doesn't really, if you're interested in keeping car costs low. I bought a compact car new in 2014, and an estimate that significantly overestimates gas costs would put my total fuel expenditures at $7000. Throw in another $400 for oil changes. As I look at EV purchase prices (comparing a Honda Civic to anything other than a Leaf), the disparity is significantly greater than that even discounting any energy costs for EVs and neglecting NPV of the extra money tied up in the vehicle.
- originalvichy 4y ago
  Well yes by definition if your car costs are already minimal and you live in a country where petrol prices are not high then an EV makes less sense. In Northern Europe the petrol prices are, to use American measurements, around $7-9 per gallon.

throwaway4good 4y ago

I am sure it is against the wto rules; hopefully diplomatic efforts by Europe and others will have it stopped before implementation otherwise we will likely enter another unconstructive trade war.

miguelazo 4y ago
It already is having a big impact. Even in California they cannot find any qualifying (under the new rules) inventory available by year end, which means those people who need a new car and were counting on offsetting their federal tax burden from this year are screwed. I’m actually a fan of industrial policy (check out the book Bad Samaritans), and would generally tell the WTO to stuff it, but this was designed extremely poorly.