4 ms·
Why design a society after the minority?
by rejectfinite 4y ago
Why design a society after the minority?
- knaekhoved 4y ago
- detaro 4y agoHow acknowledging a minority also exists "designing society after a minority"?
- rejectfinite 4y agoBecause changing the sites/books/medical language that EVERYONE uses is exactly that. I can "acknowledge" something, but I don't have to change anything.
- detaro 4y ago"designing after" would to me suggest solely focussing on, not also including. The same way that we didn't "design society after women" when they got voting rights.
- lostlogin 4y agoWhat size minority counts? Medicine has done a great job excluding groups as a large as ‘women’ historically. Still does in many areas.
- HyperSane 4y ago
- toqy 4y ago
- p0pcult 4y agoIt is quite a stretch to refer to using the word "woman" to describe someone who is pregnant as treating trans males like shit.
- toqy 4y agoNo, what's quite a stretch is the ancestor comment describing our society as being designed for a minority. And yes actually, trans males would feel like they are being treated like shit by the people in this thread absolutely insisting that gender == sex.
- p0pcult 4y agoWell, listen, as Eleanor Roosevelt has said, "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent." I think it incredibly disingenuous to equate a literal debate about appropriate medical terminology around childbirth to anything less than that. I support trans rights; what I dont support is the intellectual terrorism that underlies the notion that just because someone has a legitimate difference of opinion on appropriate language use, they are "treat[ing] people like shit" or worse.
- civilized 4y agoWhy split society into a zero-sum war of factions by declaring that society should be organized around the majority, rather than attempting to accommodate as many people as possible?
- LawTalkingGuy 4y ago> Why split society [...] factions Biology did that. Society is recognizing it, and only recently at that, by giving women sex-based rights. > by declaring that society should be organized around the majority, rather than attempting to accommodate as many people as possible? The needs of X vs the needs of Y. Females need single-sex spaces to avoid violence and rape. Males do not need to be in female single-sex spaces. Needs trump wants. > zero-sum war of Many things are zero sum. A single-sex space is only useful if it remains single-sex. A single male rapist can traumatize and attack an entire rape shelter of female victims. Women's rights don't matter if "woman" means whatever anyone else wants.
- chowells 4y agoWe're not talking about biology, we're talking about gender.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- civilized 4y agoI think concerns about single-sex spaces are very understandable. It's a sensitive topic and should be handled as such. But with the language on a pregnancy website I think we could accommodate everyone. In the root comment I suggested different materials for cis women and trans men.
- paulryanrogers 4y agoAre societies designed? And if so why not add some protections for minorities? They tend to be oppressed and ignored by majorities
- eganist 4y ago> Why design a society after the minority? We always have an obligation to design society to accommodate everyone, not just the majority. Otherwise, with your line of reasoning, you might as well repeal the ADA, do away with ethical AI considerations to enable equal processing of richer skin tones, etc.
- SamPatt 4y agoSociety isn't designed. It emerges spontaneously over time due to the beliefs and behaviors of everyone, and it's literally impossible to "design society to accommodate everyone." I'm 6'3" and I wish plane seats were designed with me in mind, but they aren't. My short wife wishes countertops were usually built higher, but they aren't. I think children are treated very poorly in our society and I've homeschooled my children to allow them to exert more agency over their lives. I'm fortunate to live in the US where this is legal, but in most of the world it isn't. Other cultures believe that they should dictate that children's time be spent according to adults' wishes. How can both be accommodated?
- WalterBright 4y agoOne of the great accomplishments of industrialization is that shoes became mass produced cheaply, rather than expensive one-offs handmade by a cobbler. The downside, of course, is that mass produced shoes come in standard sizes, and too bad for you if your feet don't work in them (mine don't).
- socialismisok 4y agoIt's designing after the whole, not the minority. If we can make a simple change to include everyone, not just a subset, why wouldn't we do that?
- nicoburns 4y agoI agree that this is the goal. And a worthy one. However, I think a lot of the controversy around self-identity centric models of gender is that they don't achieve that goal. They don't allow people to talk about the physical aspects of sex, which is something that lots people want to do. And they redefine gender in such a way that many people will feel like they no longer self-identify as the gender they identified as their entire lives.
- flowerbreeze 4y agoWhy bother with quantum physics if classical physics works for most things we need?
- bequanna 4y agoAn interesting argument. Quantum physics does a better job of explaining the universe, that’s why we use it. Changing common language for the sole purpose of being an “ally” to some ultra small minority only serves to confuse. Quite a dumb thing to do when the best possible effect is sparing a few hurt feelings. 99% of the people who support this nonsense aren’t in the affected group and are simply trying to earn “cool points” via virtue signaling.
- socialismisok 4y agoI'm non binary. When people use the correct pronouns, understand that I prefer a gender neutral restroom, and ensure that I'm represented in surveys, it helps me feel included. This allyship has a material, positive benefit on my life beyond just "feelings". Trans and non binary people represent somewhere around 1-3% of people. (Some studies push it up to about 5%, others closer to 0.5%) This makes trans and non binary folks about as frequent as wheelchair users or people with red hair. That's millions of people in America, and it's enough people that most workplaces and schools will have trans and non binary people in them.
- foverzar 4y agoEven in your analogy no one bothers with quantum physics outside it's specific scope.
- stephencanon 4y agoAcknowledging that a minority exists is not “designing society” after them. It’s accepting reality.