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Content moderation clearly found the line and blew past it. Those who have been taking advantage of this seem immensely upset they are losing this power. Really

Content moderation clearly found the line and blew past it. Those who have been taking advantage of this seem immensely upset they are losing this power. Really playing all their cards down and are talking about leaving the game and going out back. What seems inevitable is the US government starts hosting public forums to talk; but being bound by free speech. Virtually anything goes unless it's an actual crime. What happens after this?

gardenfelder 4y ago
In theory, everyone needs a platform, to be heard. It seems to me that one question in that context is this: How can you give people a platform, but at the same time, tame the conversation?
- tunap 4y ago
  Back in the golden age of phpBBs, I would give posters 1 notice when veering OT or getting nasty, then transfer the (sub-)thread to our 'FlameWar' room. There, they could, and would, be as nasty as they liked to each other. I failed to stem the flow of toxicity, but merely re-directed it. It worked out pretty well, and ironically, the more toxic categories were the most popular viewed threads for trolls and lurkers, alike. Go figure.
tbrownaw 4y ago
> What seems inevitable is the US government starts hosting public forums to talk; but being bound by free speech. Virtually anything goes unless it's an actual crime. What happens after this? Everyone gets tired of 19 out of every 20 posts being about why they need Viagra, and goes back to MySpace.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  How so? You just wouldn't follow the accounts that posted that kind of thing.
  - giantrobot 4y ago
    So when exactly did you go into the coma you just awoke from, 1993? No sort of forum can operate solely on content users explicitly follow. That's just unfederated blogs. On an online forum there's always going to be some public stream that pulls content from all user posts. Without moderation it almost instantly devolves to bigots and spammers. We've seen this routinely for the past 30 years of online forums. So "just don't follow" is not only meaningless advice but it's painfully naive.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      Don't a lot of people use Twitter's chronological timeline view and completely ignore features like Discover? Isn't that basically what I'm describing?
      - pc86 4y ago
        I think this is how most people use Twitter, especially if they go so far as to install any extensions which block ads, clear CSS, etc. - I use Minimal Twitter which has been pretty good. The only time I see posts from people I'm not following is when someone I do follow is responding, quote-tweeting, or retweeting. If you use Twitter as is, there are a lot of things promoted for you but it's not any sort of public feed, it's (theoretically) based on who people you follow follow, who they like tweets from consistently, that sort of thing. No Viagra ads are going to be showing up in that.
    - pc86 4y ago
      > Be kind. Don't be snarky. > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. > Please don't post shallow dismissals Perhaps you should give these a read and edit your comment accordingly: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - pilgrimfff 4y ago
      It’s too bad there’s no way to use hybrid approaches or use some kind of learning, but for machines! No heuristics to rank and prioritize content. We better tell every big tech company that what they’ve been doing forever is impossible to do if they don’t also de platform those deplorables.
- incomingpain 4y ago
  >Everyone gets tired of 19 out of every 20 posts being about why they need Viagra, and goes back to MySpace. So lets say advertising is considered free speech and you may freely do it. In essence it would be a tragedy of the commons. The out of control advertising would eliminate the usefulness of the forum.
pvg 4y ago
What happens after this? We know exactly what happens because it's been attempted. It fills up with spam and screaming bigots and nobody uses it beside spammers and screaming bigots. Which is why the the only 'inevitable' thing about such a government-run forum is that it won't happen.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  > We know exactly what happens because it's been attempted. When have we ever had a government-run social network before? And why aren't physical, offline public squares full of screaming bigots?
  - pvg 4y ago
    When have we ever had a government-run social network before? We've had many failed attempts at 'anything as long as it's not breaking a law' online spaces. why aren't physical, offline public squares full of screaming bigots? Because we impose severe social costs on people for that sort of thing. The screaming bigots are only bold and screaming when they feel they can avoid them. An 'anything goes' pseudonymous online forum is effectively a gift to them and mostly them - most people prioritize other things in their online social spaces far above 'anything goes'.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
    > And why aren't physical, offline public squares full of screaming bigots? They are, but only now and then. The reason is that, for most (not all) communities, there are only a few screaming bigots within easy reach of the town square, so their demonstrations often look like this[0]. With teh Internets tubes, you can gather together all those little groups of nutters, into one big nutball, so it looks like there's a lot more of them, per capita, than there actually are. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu-0HDBJHc8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu-0HDBJHc8
    - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
      yeah aside from all that basically every community has regulations regarding disturbing the peace and needing approval for rallies etc. so anybody that got up on a soapbox in the middle of the park and started yelling slurs would probably be hauled away pretty quick.
someNameIG 4y ago
> What happens after this? 4chan
MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
The town square doesn't exist in the American dream, capitalists would rather the public pay an admissions fee. Anyways, publicly funding anything of the sort is communism, right? When compared to Europe, Americans can't even manage public transit because monied interests and NIMBYism interfere. And the public good from transit is way more demonstrable than say, a forum for your racist uncle air his conspiracy theories.

gardenfelder 4y ago

In theory, everyone needs a platform, to be heard. It seems to me that one question in that context is this: How can you give people a platform, but at the same time, tame the conversation?

tunap 4y ago
Back in the golden age of phpBBs, I would give posters 1 notice when veering OT or getting nasty, then transfer the (sub-)thread to our 'FlameWar' room. There, they could, and would, be as nasty as they liked to each other. I failed to stem the flow of toxicity, but merely re-directed it. It worked out pretty well, and ironically, the more toxic categories were the most popular viewed threads for trolls and lurkers, alike. Go figure.

tbrownaw 4y ago

> What seems inevitable is the US government starts hosting public forums to talk; but being bound by free speech. Virtually anything goes unless it's an actual crime. What happens after this? Everyone gets tired of 19 out of every 20 posts being about why they need Viagra, and goes back to MySpace.

josephcsible 4y ago
How so? You just wouldn't follow the accounts that posted that kind of thing.
- giantrobot 4y ago
  So when exactly did you go into the coma you just awoke from, 1993? No sort of forum can operate solely on content users explicitly follow. That's just unfederated blogs. On an online forum there's always going to be some public stream that pulls content from all user posts. Without moderation it almost instantly devolves to bigots and spammers. We've seen this routinely for the past 30 years of online forums. So "just don't follow" is not only meaningless advice but it's painfully naive.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    Don't a lot of people use Twitter's chronological timeline view and completely ignore features like Discover? Isn't that basically what I'm describing?
    - pc86 4y ago
      I think this is how most people use Twitter, especially if they go so far as to install any extensions which block ads, clear CSS, etc. - I use Minimal Twitter which has been pretty good. The only time I see posts from people I'm not following is when someone I do follow is responding, quote-tweeting, or retweeting. If you use Twitter as is, there are a lot of things promoted for you but it's not any sort of public feed, it's (theoretically) based on who people you follow follow, who they like tweets from consistently, that sort of thing. No Viagra ads are going to be showing up in that.
  - pc86 4y ago
    > Be kind. Don't be snarky. > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. > Please don't post shallow dismissals Perhaps you should give these a read and edit your comment accordingly: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - pilgrimfff 4y ago
    It’s too bad there’s no way to use hybrid approaches or use some kind of learning, but for machines! No heuristics to rank and prioritize content. We better tell every big tech company that what they’ve been doing forever is impossible to do if they don’t also de platform those deplorables.
incomingpain 4y ago
>Everyone gets tired of 19 out of every 20 posts being about why they need Viagra, and goes back to MySpace. So lets say advertising is considered free speech and you may freely do it. In essence it would be a tragedy of the commons. The out of control advertising would eliminate the usefulness of the forum.

pvg 4y ago

What happens after this? We know exactly what happens because it's been attempted. It fills up with spam and screaming bigots and nobody uses it beside spammers and screaming bigots. Which is why the the only 'inevitable' thing about such a government-run forum is that it won't happen.

josephcsible 4y ago
> We know exactly what happens because it's been attempted. When have we ever had a government-run social network before? And why aren't physical, offline public squares full of screaming bigots?
- pvg 4y ago
  When have we ever had a government-run social network before? We've had many failed attempts at 'anything as long as it's not breaking a law' online spaces. why aren't physical, offline public squares full of screaming bigots? Because we impose severe social costs on people for that sort of thing. The screaming bigots are only bold and screaming when they feel they can avoid them. An 'anything goes' pseudonymous online forum is effectively a gift to them and mostly them - most people prioritize other things in their online social spaces far above 'anything goes'.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  > And why aren't physical, offline public squares full of screaming bigots? They are, but only now and then. The reason is that, for most (not all) communities, there are only a few screaming bigots within easy reach of the town square, so their demonstrations often look like this[0]. With teh Internets tubes, you can gather together all those little groups of nutters, into one big nutball, so it looks like there's a lot more of them, per capita, than there actually are. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu-0HDBJHc8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu-0HDBJHc8
  - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
    yeah aside from all that basically every community has regulations regarding disturbing the peace and needing approval for rallies etc. so anybody that got up on a soapbox in the middle of the park and started yelling slurs would probably be hauled away pretty quick.

someNameIG 4y ago

> What happens after this? 4chan

MonkeyMalarky 4y ago

The town square doesn't exist in the American dream, capitalists would rather the public pay an admissions fee. Anyways, publicly funding anything of the sort is communism, right? When compared to Europe, Americans can't even manage public transit because monied interests and NIMBYism interfere. And the public good from transit is way more demonstrable than say, a forum for your racist uncle air his conspiracy theories.