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This subject is so vexing, because historically Big Pharma has consistently shown to be untrustworthy in how they conduct their business. That has to be counte

This subject is so vexing, because historically Big Pharma has consistently shown to be untrustworthy in how they conduct their business. That has to be countered with the societal value of the vaccines they produce. The anti-vax movement creates an awkward dance of defending big pharma to deliver this aid whilst knowing that the cannot be trusted 100% to do the right thing.

puffoflogic 4y ago
The anti-vax movement had nothing to do with anyone defending Big Pharma. Claiming they did is an obvious lie meant to gaslight people into continuing that defense. Anyone who defends big pharma and gaslights other people into doing so as well has made their own, free, morally corrupt choice.
- pstuart 4y ago
  Being that vaccines are made by Big Pharma, and the anti-vax movement says we can't trust vaccines one has to imply that one can trust Big Pharma because we have to trust what they are delivering. Of course this nuance might be beyond many, as it's consistently acknowledged that vaccines do come with some risk and that efficacy is not 100 percent guaranteed. edit: first statement was awkward but essence is the same
  - puffoflogic 4y ago
    > because we have to trust what they are delivering Only if you're gaslighting for big pharma, which seems to be something you're very comfortable with. But keep blaming others for your own evil.
    - pstuart 4y ago
      You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Pro tip: being an asshole isn't going to help win any arguments. All you've done is demonstrate why anti-vaxxers are beyond reason.
      - pstuart 4y ago
        Too late to edit out the pro-tip but it still stands. Accusing me of being evil and a shill for Big Pharma is is unacceptable behavior for a forum that promotes thoughtful discussion rather than emotional tirades.
yucky 4y ago
It wasn't the people against the Covid vaccine who were licking the boots of Big Pharma, it was the other people using force and shame to try and get a shot in every arm.
- pstuart 4y ago
  I may be a vaccine proponent, but I do recognize the problem of forcing someone to be "medicated" against their wishes. That's balanced by the fact that I think virtually all the reasoning against it is specious at best. I don't have a better answer for that problem other than the force and shame be as thoughtful and accommodating as possible. The shame is valid in the context of the proposition that vaccine efficacy is at its best when a significant portion of the population is vaccinated. By not participating in this particular social contract one is not "doing one's fair share". Obviously if one doesn't accept that proposition, the shame is unnecessary. C'est la guerre.
  - yucky 4y ago
    The problem with the "doing one's fair share" argument is that we were lied to by the government, Pfizer admitted in testimony they never tested the vaccine against transmission, which explains why so many vaccinated people can't seem to stop getting and spreading Covid. So now that they've destroyed the trust, where do we go from here? For instance, I've never met anybody who didn't get their kids the regular vaccinations (Measles, mumps, rubella etc) I'm sure those people exist, but they're rare which means we mostly trusted our government on the question of vaccines. This debacle has ruined that trust, so how do we get it back when it really matters?
    - pstuart 4y ago
      A quick search on your complaint re transmission shows that it's without merit: https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/vaccines-verify/claims-pfizer-didnt-know-if-covid-vaccine-prevented-transmission-missing-context-fact-check/536-aaf563f5-2286-44d4-ae0b-2c71812b84e4 https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/vaccines-veri... And "government" is not a homogeneous body with consistent understandings/incentives/etc. Prior to the previous administration vaccines were not political. They were the fringe group of conspiracy theorists for the most part. I don't consider them personally political but it's very much wound into millions of people that being anti-vax is part of their political identity. tl;dr -- vaccines are never 100% safe nor 100% effective and it's a case of risk assessment on the value of participating. I'd wager that very few of those who've turned their backs on them have done an honest calculation.

puffoflogic 4y ago

The anti-vax movement had nothing to do with anyone defending Big Pharma. Claiming they did is an obvious lie meant to gaslight people into continuing that defense. Anyone who defends big pharma and gaslights other people into doing so as well has made their own, free, morally corrupt choice.

pstuart 4y ago
Being that vaccines are made by Big Pharma, and the anti-vax movement says we can't trust vaccines one has to imply that one can trust Big Pharma because we have to trust what they are delivering. Of course this nuance might be beyond many, as it's consistently acknowledged that vaccines do come with some risk and that efficacy is not 100 percent guaranteed. edit: first statement was awkward but essence is the same
- puffoflogic 4y ago
  > because we have to trust what they are delivering Only if you're gaslighting for big pharma, which seems to be something you're very comfortable with. But keep blaming others for your own evil.
  - pstuart 4y ago
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Pro tip: being an asshole isn't going to help win any arguments. All you've done is demonstrate why anti-vaxxers are beyond reason.
    - pstuart 4y ago
      Too late to edit out the pro-tip but it still stands. Accusing me of being evil and a shill for Big Pharma is is unacceptable behavior for a forum that promotes thoughtful discussion rather than emotional tirades.

yucky 4y ago

It wasn't the people against the Covid vaccine who were licking the boots of Big Pharma, it was the other people using force and shame to try and get a shot in every arm.

pstuart 4y ago
I may be a vaccine proponent, but I do recognize the problem of forcing someone to be "medicated" against their wishes. That's balanced by the fact that I think virtually all the reasoning against it is specious at best. I don't have a better answer for that problem other than the force and shame be as thoughtful and accommodating as possible. The shame is valid in the context of the proposition that vaccine efficacy is at its best when a significant portion of the population is vaccinated. By not participating in this particular social contract one is not "doing one's fair share". Obviously if one doesn't accept that proposition, the shame is unnecessary. C'est la guerre.
- yucky 4y ago
  The problem with the "doing one's fair share" argument is that we were lied to by the government, Pfizer admitted in testimony they never tested the vaccine against transmission, which explains why so many vaccinated people can't seem to stop getting and spreading Covid. So now that they've destroyed the trust, where do we go from here? For instance, I've never met anybody who didn't get their kids the regular vaccinations (Measles, mumps, rubella etc) I'm sure those people exist, but they're rare which means we mostly trusted our government on the question of vaccines. This debacle has ruined that trust, so how do we get it back when it really matters?
  - pstuart 4y ago
    A quick search on your complaint re transmission shows that it's without merit: https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/vaccines-verify/claims-pfizer-didnt-know-if-covid-vaccine-prevented-transmission-missing-context-fact-check/536-aaf563f5-2286-44d4-ae0b-2c71812b84e4 https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/vaccines-veri... And "government" is not a homogeneous body with consistent understandings/incentives/etc. Prior to the previous administration vaccines were not political. They were the fringe group of conspiracy theorists for the most part. I don't consider them personally political but it's very much wound into millions of people that being anti-vax is part of their political identity. tl;dr -- vaccines are never 100% safe nor 100% effective and it's a case of risk assessment on the value of participating. I'd wager that very few of those who've turned their backs on them have done an honest calculation.