4 ms·

Drug dealers are nice people

7 points by joejohnson 15y ago

learc83 15y ago
From the polls I've seen, we've passed the point were the majority believe, at least marijuana, should be legalized. However, it's going to take a while to overcome the legislative inertia. The war on drugs should be a lesson to everyone in limited government. This is a great example of what happens when we massage the constitution, so that "interstate commerce" includes me growing weed in my basement.
- _delirium 15y ago
  Unfortunately I think it has more to do with societal attitudes than specifically constitutional ones. In a previous era where the prevailing understanding of the interstate commerce clause wouldn't have allowed that kind of regulation, it still didn't stop anyone: they just passed a constitutional amendment to ban alcohol. I'm guessing that if some of these drug bans had been struck down 50 years ago, they would've been re-introduced by constitutional amendment amidst a flurry of hand-wringing about heroin in our streets.
  - learc83 15y ago
    That is definitely a good point. And in any kind of democratic government, even an indirectly democratic republic, it is hard to resist the will of the overwhelming majority. However constitutional amendments are generally incredibly hard to enact. It took over 50 years of constant warfare before the prohibitionists finally got what they wanted, and it only lasted a little over a decade. If I've learned anything, it's that other people are generally idiots, therefore I want to minimize their ability to impact on my life.
- joejohnson 15y ago
  Also, cocaine is a lot further from being decriminalized. However, it is still ridiculous someone could face up to 40 years in prison for non-violent crimes. The number one reason for incarceration in the US is drug-related offenses. From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_Sta...): - 1 in 100 adult Americans is in prison (the other 99% are effectively paying for that) - only 7.9% of inmates are for violent crimes
  - learc83 15y ago
    Yes, I'm for legalizing all drugs. Our incarceration rates are insane. My local sheriffs office is building a brand new 115 million dollar jail to house 1500 inmates. Our county only has about 130,000 people. Are there really 1,500 people out of 130,000 that are so dangerous they need to stay locked up to protect everyone else.
    - 2muchcoffeeman 15y ago
      I fail to see why people bring this up as an argument to legalize drugs. This is really only an argument to change the penalty so you don't go to jail.
      - joejohnson 15y ago
        Even if drug offenses held a less-serious punishment, there would still be an immensely wasteful amount of money spent trying to find and apprehend drug criminals. This whole underground market is thriving; instead of collecting tax revenue, we are using taxpayer money to enact an impossible ban.
alberich 15y ago
So, this guy buys up cocaine from some (probably highly violent) drug producers from some poor country, but as he didn't kill anyone himself he is a nice guy? Discussing drug legalization is one thing, but many people die every year by the hands of the same guys that deliver the drugs to those nice guys... Come on... He earned good legal money as a player and had business with those ruthless drug producers, even if it through some mediators. If you fuel violence with your money, you are not a nice guy, even if there is not any actual blood in your hands.
- sbmassey 15y ago
  They should have some kind of "fair trade" certification for drugs so that you know that the producers are gentle-hearted, God-fearing types.
- learc83 15y ago
  He's not the one fueling violence. Our government's policies are fueling the violence, so by that definition none of us are "nice guys."
  - alberich 15y ago
    Well, this kind of relative thinking brings us to another question that has not much to do with this topic. Should laws be followed or not? Is it morally valid to do ilegal stuff because one believes that the law is wrong? I'm adept of respecting law and trying to change it through our representatives. Now if you fight the government, the government will fight back, and innocent people get killed in the process (by both sides). So the question "are we all bad guys?" depends very much on what you believe that is morally correct. I appologise for being so absolutist, when moral is the topic nothing is universal. ps. and I know, I'm sorry, my english skills suck :)
    - learc83 15y ago
      > Is it morally valid to do ilegal stuff because one believes that the law is wrong? I say yes with absolute conviction. If the law is immoral, it is immoral to follow it. This is an extreme example, but it supports my position--It was illegal to harbor Jews during the Nazi's reign. If, in Germany in 1939, you turned in your neighbor for harboring Jews, you were most definitely acting immorally, and your lawbreaking neighbor was acting morally.

7 points by joejohnson 15y ago

From the polls I've seen, we've passed the point were the majority believe, at least marijuana, should be legalized. However, it's going to take a while to overcome the legislative inertia. The war on drugs should be a lesson to everyone in limited government. This is a great example of what happens when we massage the constitution, so that "interstate commerce" includes me growing weed in my basement.

_delirium 15y ago
Unfortunately I think it has more to do with societal attitudes than specifically constitutional ones. In a previous era where the prevailing understanding of the interstate commerce clause wouldn't have allowed that kind of regulation, it still didn't stop anyone: they just passed a constitutional amendment to ban alcohol. I'm guessing that if some of these drug bans had been struck down 50 years ago, they would've been re-introduced by constitutional amendment amidst a flurry of hand-wringing about heroin in our streets.
- learc83 15y ago
  That is definitely a good point. And in any kind of democratic government, even an indirectly democratic republic, it is hard to resist the will of the overwhelming majority. However constitutional amendments are generally incredibly hard to enact. It took over 50 years of constant warfare before the prohibitionists finally got what they wanted, and it only lasted a little over a decade. If I've learned anything, it's that other people are generally idiots, therefore I want to minimize their ability to impact on my life.
joejohnson 15y ago
Also, cocaine is a lot further from being decriminalized. However, it is still ridiculous someone could face up to 40 years in prison for non-violent crimes. The number one reason for incarceration in the US is drug-related offenses. From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_Sta...): - 1 in 100 adult Americans is in prison (the other 99% are effectively paying for that) - only 7.9% of inmates are for violent crimes
- learc83 15y ago
  Yes, I'm for legalizing all drugs. Our incarceration rates are insane. My local sheriffs office is building a brand new 115 million dollar jail to house 1500 inmates. Our county only has about 130,000 people. Are there really 1,500 people out of 130,000 that are so dangerous they need to stay locked up to protect everyone else.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 15y ago
    I fail to see why people bring this up as an argument to legalize drugs. This is really only an argument to change the penalty so you don't go to jail.
    - joejohnson 15y ago
      Even if drug offenses held a less-serious punishment, there would still be an immensely wasteful amount of money spent trying to find and apprehend drug criminals. This whole underground market is thriving; instead of collecting tax revenue, we are using taxpayer money to enact an impossible ban.

alberich 15y ago

So, this guy buys up cocaine from some (probably highly violent) drug producers from some poor country, but as he didn't kill anyone himself he is a nice guy? Discussing drug legalization is one thing, but many people die every year by the hands of the same guys that deliver the drugs to those nice guys... Come on... He earned good legal money as a player and had business with those ruthless drug producers, even if it through some mediators. If you fuel violence with your money, you are not a nice guy, even if there is not any actual blood in your hands.

sbmassey 15y ago
They should have some kind of "fair trade" certification for drugs so that you know that the producers are gentle-hearted, God-fearing types.
learc83 15y ago
He's not the one fueling violence. Our government's policies are fueling the violence, so by that definition none of us are "nice guys."
- alberich 15y ago
  Well, this kind of relative thinking brings us to another question that has not much to do with this topic. Should laws be followed or not? Is it morally valid to do ilegal stuff because one believes that the law is wrong? I'm adept of respecting law and trying to change it through our representatives. Now if you fight the government, the government will fight back, and innocent people get killed in the process (by both sides). So the question "are we all bad guys?" depends very much on what you believe that is morally correct. I appologise for being so absolutist, when moral is the topic nothing is universal. ps. and I know, I'm sorry, my english skills suck :)
  - learc83 15y ago
    > Is it morally valid to do ilegal stuff because one believes that the law is wrong? I say yes with absolute conviction. If the law is immoral, it is immoral to follow it. This is an extreme example, but it supports my position--It was illegal to harbor Jews during the Nazi's reign. If, in Germany in 1939, you turned in your neighbor for harboring Jews, you were most definitely acting immorally, and your lawbreaking neighbor was acting morally.