3 ms·

"The friendships where people rely on one another for assistance" and "'let's catch up' friends" would appear to be, according to Aristotle's analysis, friendsh

"The friendships where people rely on one another for assistance" and "'let's catch up' friends" would appear to be, according to Aristotle's analysis, friendships of utility and of pleasure, respectively. These are not bad, but there is a higher, more perfect, more durable form of friendship, the friendship of virtue [0], rooted in a common goal. Marriage is such a friendship, for example. It is not surprising, then, that friendships of pleasure or utility should more easily wane, while friendships of virtue are more lasting. [0] https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2016/06/16819/ https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2016/06/16819/

ericmcer 4y ago
Is a friendship of virtue a friendship? That seems to violate the idea that friendships are low-commitment and non-binding relationships. I would define my wife as my wife and friend, because our status as friends could become shaky but she would still be my wife. Similarly a long time business partner could be someone I identify as a friend or not. Those are both relationships rooted in a common goal, but I think Aristotle's definition of friendship is a stretch here. I think the wisdom of "don't go into business with your friends" is more relevant in my life.
- gilbert_vanova 4y ago
  > Is a friendship of virtue a friendship? Yes -- and it is plainly the highest form of friendship as it is the closest to dissolving the individual into a greater whole.
  - ericmcer 4y ago
    Sounds like something I would hear at a google all hands or something.
- srean 4y ago
  > the idea that friendships are low-commitment and non-binding relationships Is that your idea of what a friendship is ? Friendship to me means far deeper than that.
  - ericmcer 4y ago
    Would you be ok with a friend getting mad at you for not texting them back fast enough? What about wanting to go to counseling with you to discuss why you have been arguing more recently? Yes 100% the reason why I need and love my friends is because those relationships do not have the weight of expectation that other relationships do.
- anon291 4y ago
  > That seems to violate the idea that friendships are low-commitment and non-binding relationships. Why is friendship low-commitment and non-binding. In the Western world, this is an aberration. For most of Western history, friendship was often considered more permanent and requiring more commitment than even marriage. It was seen as a life-long arrangement, with duties between friends, etc. Slighting one's friend was the start of many bitter bitter disputes that lasted generations.
kneebonian 4y ago
I just find it interesting how we believe we are so much more advanced than our ancestors and know so much more, but when it comes to living "The Good Life" they were still talking about the same problems we are struggling with in modern society. Maybe overall we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the wisdom of the ancients in favor of our modern obsession with data.
- Jorengarenar 4y ago
  Natural and formal sciences + resulting from them technology is indeed more advanced. Everything else? Not so much; we are, after all, still just people.
civilized 4y ago
Glad to see someone say something good about marriage. Elite media is so negative about it these days. We are stuck in cliches about how historically it was just a strategic play for money and power and it never made sense as the core friendship around which your life revolves. Maybe marriage is a nuisance if your life's ambition is to get an essay into The New Yorker, but if you have more pedestrian interests in family, it can be the best.
- anon291 4y ago
  > Maybe marriage is a nuisance if your life's ambition is to get an essay into The New Yorker, but if you have more pedestrian interests in family, it can be the best. A disproportionately large portion of journalists for national outlets live in Brooklyn New York, which explains their biased view of the world.

ericmcer 4y ago

Is a friendship of virtue a friendship? That seems to violate the idea that friendships are low-commitment and non-binding relationships. I would define my wife as my wife and friend, because our status as friends could become shaky but she would still be my wife. Similarly a long time business partner could be someone I identify as a friend or not. Those are both relationships rooted in a common goal, but I think Aristotle's definition of friendship is a stretch here. I think the wisdom of "don't go into business with your friends" is more relevant in my life.

gilbert_vanova 4y ago
> Is a friendship of virtue a friendship? Yes -- and it is plainly the highest form of friendship as it is the closest to dissolving the individual into a greater whole.
- ericmcer 4y ago
  Sounds like something I would hear at a google all hands or something.
srean 4y ago
> the idea that friendships are low-commitment and non-binding relationships Is that your idea of what a friendship is ? Friendship to me means far deeper than that.
- ericmcer 4y ago
  Would you be ok with a friend getting mad at you for not texting them back fast enough? What about wanting to go to counseling with you to discuss why you have been arguing more recently? Yes 100% the reason why I need and love my friends is because those relationships do not have the weight of expectation that other relationships do.
anon291 4y ago
> That seems to violate the idea that friendships are low-commitment and non-binding relationships. Why is friendship low-commitment and non-binding. In the Western world, this is an aberration. For most of Western history, friendship was often considered more permanent and requiring more commitment than even marriage. It was seen as a life-long arrangement, with duties between friends, etc. Slighting one's friend was the start of many bitter bitter disputes that lasted generations.

kneebonian 4y ago

I just find it interesting how we believe we are so much more advanced than our ancestors and know so much more, but when it comes to living "The Good Life" they were still talking about the same problems we are struggling with in modern society. Maybe overall we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the wisdom of the ancients in favor of our modern obsession with data.

Jorengarenar 4y ago
Natural and formal sciences + resulting from them technology is indeed more advanced. Everything else? Not so much; we are, after all, still just people.

civilized 4y ago

Glad to see someone say something good about marriage. Elite media is so negative about it these days. We are stuck in cliches about how historically it was just a strategic play for money and power and it never made sense as the core friendship around which your life revolves. Maybe marriage is a nuisance if your life's ambition is to get an essay into The New Yorker, but if you have more pedestrian interests in family, it can be the best.

anon291 4y ago
> Maybe marriage is a nuisance if your life's ambition is to get an essay into The New Yorker, but if you have more pedestrian interests in family, it can be the best. A disproportionately large portion of journalists for national outlets live in Brooklyn New York, which explains their biased view of the world.