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> 10. Everyone pays their own legal bills. This is the surprising one to me. Making Chessbase pay for Stockfish's incurred legal fees not only seems justified

by tromp 4y ago

> 10. Everyone pays their own legal bills. This is the surprising one to me. Making Chessbase pay for Stockfish's incurred legal fees not only seems justified but would help deter future infringement of open source licences.

conorcleary 4y ago
Surprising to see, but seems to make for a better future relationship. It's a game.
dalbasal 4y ago
Yes but... That often leads a dirty game. Litigation, especially license and IP related litigation, is often all about the meta, the strategy games and ulterior or adjacent motives. The legal action itself, with associated costs and stresses can be scarier than the judgment. Deterrence or establishing legal cases and such can be the motive. Legal costs can be driven up to strategically raise stakes. Etc. It's nice when occasionally the system can be used to settle disputes or do justice.
- dcow 4y ago
  I also wonder about ChessBase’s financials. If the costs were too damaging then ChessBase might have to shut down which ultimately isn’t good for StockFish. It’s possible ChessBase will sadly lose many customers because of the GPL (though it shouldn’t be so) because some people in our industry and especially companies are allergic to it.
  - Nullabillity 4y ago
    > If the costs were too damaging then ChessBase might have to shut down which ultimately isn’t good for StockFish. Why not? It's not like ChessBase ever contributed anything to StockFish. > It’s possible ChessBase will sadly lose many customers because of the GPL (though it shouldn’t be so) because some people in our industry and especially companies are allergic to it. ChessBase sells B2C chess engines, not libraries. Their customer base is either pro-GPL or don't care about it.
    - dcow 4y ago
      Because maybe it’s validating as a project to know a large commercial entity uses your code? Maybe the exposure Stockfish gets if ChessBase complies with their requests is worth making sure they can continue to survive? Maybe Stockfish is delighted that their project reaches so many users and is focused on making sure that remains so?
luciusdomitius 4y ago
Most probably a crap lawyer - 90% of "lawyers" posses a single skill - to convince the poor soul using their services, that such a "deal" is advantageous.

by tromp 4y ago

conorcleary 4y ago

Surprising to see, but seems to make for a better future relationship. It's a game.

dalbasal 4y ago

Yes but... That often leads a dirty game. Litigation, especially license and IP related litigation, is often all about the meta, the strategy games and ulterior or adjacent motives. The legal action itself, with associated costs and stresses can be scarier than the judgment. Deterrence or establishing legal cases and such can be the motive. Legal costs can be driven up to strategically raise stakes. Etc. It's nice when occasionally the system can be used to settle disputes or do justice.

dcow 4y ago
I also wonder about ChessBase’s financials. If the costs were too damaging then ChessBase might have to shut down which ultimately isn’t good for StockFish. It’s possible ChessBase will sadly lose many customers because of the GPL (though it shouldn’t be so) because some people in our industry and especially companies are allergic to it.
- Nullabillity 4y ago
  > If the costs were too damaging then ChessBase might have to shut down which ultimately isn’t good for StockFish. Why not? It's not like ChessBase ever contributed anything to StockFish. > It’s possible ChessBase will sadly lose many customers because of the GPL (though it shouldn’t be so) because some people in our industry and especially companies are allergic to it. ChessBase sells B2C chess engines, not libraries. Their customer base is either pro-GPL or don't care about it.
  - dcow 4y ago
    Because maybe it’s validating as a project to know a large commercial entity uses your code? Maybe the exposure Stockfish gets if ChessBase complies with their requests is worth making sure they can continue to survive? Maybe Stockfish is delighted that their project reaches so many users and is focused on making sure that remains so?

luciusdomitius 4y ago

Most probably a crap lawyer - 90% of "lawyers" posses a single skill - to convince the poor soul using their services, that such a "deal" is advantageous.