4 ms·

I was doing poorly in jr high and was forced into a same sex school that ultimately saved my life. I think it's better tbh, and I will probably do the same for

I was doing poorly in jr high and was forced into a same sex school that ultimately saved my life. I think it's better tbh, and I will probably do the same for my kids if they are having academic issues.

reilly3000 4y ago
I'm curious about how this played out for you. Having never experienced almost anything gendered in school aside from sports I just don't understand what the dynamic would be like. I do recall reading a piece by a black author who was lamenting school desegregation. They wrote how black schools in the south were a place of community, empowerment, and organizing. The education could be about the subject, and not focused on behavior correction to fit within 'majority culture', or learning 'canonical' language idioms. In this author's view, desegregation was a means for scaling white supremacy, codifying it into curriculum and making it universal. It was about squelching and scattering communities that threatened their power. When I read that somewhere around 2002, I wasn't able to accept it. I am a biracial adoptee that was raised in a suburban northwest evangelical home. My parents, teachers, community, and I embraced "I don't see color" and other "post-racial" forms of magical thinking. I was taught that white supremacy was about the people on the extreme fringes- sure they threw a parade for themselves a few towns over, but only a dozen people showed up. I was often told just how fortunate I was to be with my adoptive family, and how morally upright our community is. It went unspoken (or literally spoken in Small Group Bible Studies) that whites have a moral high ground, and that others are beneficiaries of their superior canon. Its 2022 now. The masks are off. Its a lot easier to understand how widespread and institutional racism can be. As of this year, a school district could be fined 2% of its annual budget if a teacher shared what I read in 2002. I have seen naked racism all over the web (Snopes alum 2018-21)and and not just "dozens of people" a few towns over. I counted about ~215 vehicle convoy of pickup trucks and humvees drive though my neighborhood waving their rifles and insurrection flags just over 2 years ago. Now its plain to see how desegregation ultimately gave whites more power over policies and narrative vs segregated schools. https://www.mprnews.org/story/2017/10/10/why-are-all-the-black-kids-sitting-together-in-the-cafeteria https://www.mprnews.org/story/2017/10/10/why-are-all-the-bla... I say all that to say I can see the same dynamic in education along the axis of gender. When the state has a de facto monopoly on the standards and practices of education it can become an instrument of oppression for whomever wields it. This supersedes the curriculum and goes to the structure of the school system itself. For example, a no recess policies and a school day that punishes movement openly discriminates especially against people who's bodies evolved to run, hide, fight, hunt, and explore. I can see gender segregation in education being really supportive to empower girls to step into roles that may have been otherwise filled by boys and visa versa. All of this begs the question of which axes to segregate, if segregation is good. Race+gender? Neurotype? Religion?... The permutations really start to add up. How much is too much, if any?
- xhkkffbf 4y ago
  I've seen some discussion lately claiming that feminism and female-first schooling was designed to get women out of the house and into the workplace so their work could be taxed. I can't say I really believe it or not, but this theory explains why the state would be pushing the idea so hard.
  - reilly3000 4y ago
    There’s certainly a long history of women’s education but it’s historically been the realm of the wealthy. I do think there is something to do with real wage growth stagnation and women in the workforce. By dramatically increasing the labor pool, wages have been essentially divided, forcing families into requiring dual incomes to have the same spending power.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    "so their work could be taxed"...that makes no sense to me, what would be the advantage? Taxation itself doesn't magically "generate" wealth that could be used to help pay for the cost of government (which is only likely to increase as more women take up paid work outside the home).
- cafard 4y ago
  Black schools in the south were grossly underfunded. They did have the advantage that the limited opportunities for educated Black men were limited, and that teaching therefore wasn't a bad career option. (The Vietnam draft produced a similar but passing effect for White males: if you were teaching, they wouldn't cut off your hair and send you to Vietnam.) I really don't think that desegregation made the schooling of Black kids worse that it had been. That's pretty faint praise, of course. I did go to an all-boys high school. It was OK. The main effect was to leave me feeling that I had had enough male bonding to last me a lifetime. An acquaintance in college suggested that I might join his fraternity, and I said, No way.
- djohnston 4y ago
  I think there were two big consequences of switching into same-sex education when I was 15. 1/ The hormonal chaos of a bunch of teenagers was partially quelled. There weren't any girls around to impress, we could be more open with one another with less fear of judgement and no expectation to be the big man. I could ask more questions in class without being petrified of looking dumb in front of a girl I liked. 2/ Learning could become a sport. It may seem immature, but I grew up playing sports my entire childhood, pretty much every season. At my HS you had class rank, and that turned learning into a game for me, which is exactly what I needed for motivation to work hard and study. By the time I was 17 I really fell in love with math, but I wouldn't have gotten there without the competitive gaming component of my first few years. This isn't intrinsic to same sex schooling, but it wasn't available at my local co-ed schools.

reilly3000 4y ago

I'm curious about how this played out for you. Having never experienced almost anything gendered in school aside from sports I just don't understand what the dynamic would be like. I do recall reading a piece by a black author who was lamenting school desegregation. They wrote how black schools in the south were a place of community, empowerment, and organizing. The education could be about the subject, and not focused on behavior correction to fit within 'majority culture', or learning 'canonical' language idioms. In this author's view, desegregation was a means for scaling white supremacy, codifying it into curriculum and making it universal. It was about squelching and scattering communities that threatened their power. When I read that somewhere around 2002, I wasn't able to accept it. I am a biracial adoptee that was raised in a suburban northwest evangelical home. My parents, teachers, community, and I embraced "I don't see color" and other "post-racial" forms of magical thinking. I was taught that white supremacy was about the people on the extreme fringes- sure they threw a parade for themselves a few towns over, but only a dozen people showed up. I was often told just how fortunate I was to be with my adoptive family, and how morally upright our community is. It went unspoken (or literally spoken in Small Group Bible Studies) that whites have a moral high ground, and that others are beneficiaries of their superior canon. Its 2022 now. The masks are off. Its a lot easier to understand how widespread and institutional racism can be. As of this year, a school district could be fined 2% of its annual budget if a teacher shared what I read in 2002. I have seen naked racism all over the web (Snopes alum 2018-21)and and not just "dozens of people" a few towns over. I counted about ~215 vehicle convoy of pickup trucks and humvees drive though my neighborhood waving their rifles and insurrection flags just over 2 years ago. Now its plain to see how desegregation ultimately gave whites more power over policies and narrative vs segregated schools. https://www.mprnews.org/story/2017/10/10/why-are-all-the-black-kids-sitting-together-in-the-cafeteria https://www.mprnews.org/story/2017/10/10/why-are-all-the-bla... I say all that to say I can see the same dynamic in education along the axis of gender. When the state has a de facto monopoly on the standards and practices of education it can become an instrument of oppression for whomever wields it. This supersedes the curriculum and goes to the structure of the school system itself. For example, a no recess policies and a school day that punishes movement openly discriminates especially against people who's bodies evolved to run, hide, fight, hunt, and explore. I can see gender segregation in education being really supportive to empower girls to step into roles that may have been otherwise filled by boys and visa versa. All of this begs the question of which axes to segregate, if segregation is good. Race+gender? Neurotype? Religion?... The permutations really start to add up. How much is too much, if any?

xhkkffbf 4y ago
I've seen some discussion lately claiming that feminism and female-first schooling was designed to get women out of the house and into the workplace so their work could be taxed. I can't say I really believe it or not, but this theory explains why the state would be pushing the idea so hard.
- reilly3000 4y ago
  There’s certainly a long history of women’s education but it’s historically been the realm of the wealthy. I do think there is something to do with real wage growth stagnation and women in the workforce. By dramatically increasing the labor pool, wages have been essentially divided, forcing families into requiring dual incomes to have the same spending power.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  "so their work could be taxed"...that makes no sense to me, what would be the advantage? Taxation itself doesn't magically "generate" wealth that could be used to help pay for the cost of government (which is only likely to increase as more women take up paid work outside the home).
cafard 4y ago
Black schools in the south were grossly underfunded. They did have the advantage that the limited opportunities for educated Black men were limited, and that teaching therefore wasn't a bad career option. (The Vietnam draft produced a similar but passing effect for White males: if you were teaching, they wouldn't cut off your hair and send you to Vietnam.) I really don't think that desegregation made the schooling of Black kids worse that it had been. That's pretty faint praise, of course. I did go to an all-boys high school. It was OK. The main effect was to leave me feeling that I had had enough male bonding to last me a lifetime. An acquaintance in college suggested that I might join his fraternity, and I said, No way.
djohnston 4y ago
I think there were two big consequences of switching into same-sex education when I was 15. 1/ The hormonal chaos of a bunch of teenagers was partially quelled. There weren't any girls around to impress, we could be more open with one another with less fear of judgement and no expectation to be the big man. I could ask more questions in class without being petrified of looking dumb in front of a girl I liked. 2/ Learning could become a sport. It may seem immature, but I grew up playing sports my entire childhood, pretty much every season. At my HS you had class rank, and that turned learning into a game for me, which is exactly what I needed for motivation to work hard and study. By the time I was 17 I really fell in love with math, but I wouldn't have gotten there without the competitive gaming component of my first few years. This isn't intrinsic to same sex schooling, but it wasn't available at my local co-ed schools.