6 ms·

It was becoming common knowledge that you could disconnect your machine from networks during installation to use Windows with a local account (i.e. the normal k

by unnah 4y ago

It was becoming common knowledge that you could disconnect your machine from networks during installation to use Windows with a local account (i.e. the normal kind of user account that people have used for decades). Microsoft wants people to register online during installation and to use the online account on all their computers, in order to increase the market share of the Windows app store and other Microsoft online services such as OneDrive and Office 365. So it's not malicious, Microsoft is just implementing their strategy to create more monetization opportunities.

gruturo 4y ago
> So it's not malicious Ahem. You literally just described a very clear-cut, textbook example of malicious. Yes it is absolutely malicious.
- mirko22 4y ago
  Yeah, I love how much hate people gave to Microsoft about browser monopoly but this is somehow fine :)
- RunSet 4y ago
  People are so quick to assume malice whenever a multinational conglomerate practices deception in pursuit of profit. Whatever happened to engaging in good faith?
  - LocalH 4y ago
    The pursuit of profit, purely for the sake of profit and no other goal, is malicious.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      What? No it isn't, and profit has nothing to do with why this particular decision by Microsoft was.
      - LocalH 4y ago
        If one's sole driving concern is making money, a whole lot of evil becomes possible. The other side of profit is power - those with more capital become more powerful. That's the reason Microsoft made this decision. They don't want the average person being able to easily make a local account, they'd much rather force everyone to register an account with them in order to even use their computer. It's just one further notch down the slippery slope of the end of private ownership and personal rights. A small notch, certainly. But it's a small notch in their overall endgame of putting general-purpose computing "back in the bottle" so to speak. Certain powers in this world want there to be less regulation for the moneymakers in this world. Centralized wealth has been a cancer on humanity for millennia, and we're nowhere near putting the proper amount of shackles on capitalism.
    - thaneross 4y ago
      I think most people don't realize this given how normalized it is. Wealth is a mechanism of distributing limited resources, and thus profit seeking without concern for externalities or creating value makes everyone else worse off.
gambiting 4y ago
I mean, sorry, but I consider that malicious. The OS can create a local account but doesn't give you that option specifically to make you create a windows Live account. That is almost textbook definition of malicious for me.
- thelittleone 4y ago
  What's may be more surprising than their malice is your surprise at their malice. These 'dark patterns' are so numerous now it's exhausting to remain duly outraged. I hope there's a future (or alternate universe) where dark patterns, such as this, result in economic loss rather than economic gain.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - pxc 4y ago
    They might be a Linux desktop user or a free software person in general. If you stick to F/OSS you might still live in a world where that stuff is pretty much entirely absent, experientally. Then the outrage comes in full force, as a kind of culture shock, whenever some external situation requires you to do something like set up a proprietary desktop operating system. > I hope there's a future (or alternate universe) where dark patterns, such as this, result in economic loss rather than economic gain. I agree. I wonder whether that can actually be achieved through end-user savviness alone.
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  Ten years ago you needed iTunes to enable your iPhone/iPad. Sure there are probably was a way to skip most of the requirements (except iTunes itself) but around that time I helped a friend to activate an iPad. I was forced to register an Apple account AND give it a credit card to activate that iPad. You can blame MS all you want, but MS IS LATE FOR THE PARTY WITH ALL THAT SHIT.
  - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
samb1729 4y ago
> Microsoft wants people to register online [...] in order to increase the market share of the Windows app store and other Microsoft online services > So it's not malicious I would have to firmly disagree there. Microsoft are pushing the notion that an online account with some identity provider is a necessity for home computing by hiding the (perfectly functional) option to create a local account.
- deafpolygon 4y ago
  The only reason why that functionality is still there at all is to avoid a lawsuit. "See, it's still implemented!" This is just frog in a boiling pot. Windows (and iOS) is becoming an OS as a service. Pretty soon you won't be able to use it without paying for something.
tveyben 4y ago
- This is My procedure (with Lan) to obtain a local Account on W10 Install Windows 10 and go through the OOBE - Select Region - Select Keyboard Layout - SKIP Secondary keyboard layout - Network connection - ENABLE Allow PC to be discoverable - Setup = For personal use - Account = Offline account - like old times - a completely standalone PC - Sign in = Limited experience - ignore the nudging to make an online account - User account = <my initials> - as this gets used for the name of the home folder and I don't want my full name for that - No password - to avoid the nonsense socalled "security questions". Password will be set later *after* completing the installation - Location usage = No - Find my device = No - Diagnostic data = Required only - Improve inking = No - Tailored experience = No - Advertising ID = No - Customise experience = Skip - Set a password for the account
- 867-5309 4y ago
  you can just skip enabling internet. weirdly, on some machines this results in a reboot, but it's fine
rnd0 4y ago
> So it's not malicious, Microsoft is just implementing their strategy to create more monetization opportunities. So it's not malicious -it's just malicious. Gotcha!
xxs 4y ago
that's tying, an anti competitive feature. Illegal too
temac 4y ago
It is absolutely malicious tho ugh, because Windows works perfectly fine with only a local account, and tbh it would still be malicious, and actually even more malicious, if they managed to change windows to make it not work anymore with just a local account. I suspect they won't and that nrobypass or something equivalent will remain for the forrseable future. Maybe a regulation authority will even force them to provide back the offline option out of the box.
josephcsible 4y ago
That explanation is exactly what I meant by malice. Microsoft is trying to force people to do something to their own computers that they don't want to do and that isn't actually necessary to do.

by unnah 4y ago

gruturo 4y ago

> So it's not malicious Ahem. You literally just described a very clear-cut, textbook example of malicious. Yes it is absolutely malicious.

mirko22 4y ago
Yeah, I love how much hate people gave to Microsoft about browser monopoly but this is somehow fine :)
RunSet 4y ago
People are so quick to assume malice whenever a multinational conglomerate practices deception in pursuit of profit. Whatever happened to engaging in good faith?
- LocalH 4y ago
  The pursuit of profit, purely for the sake of profit and no other goal, is malicious.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    What? No it isn't, and profit has nothing to do with why this particular decision by Microsoft was.
    - LocalH 4y ago
      If one's sole driving concern is making money, a whole lot of evil becomes possible. The other side of profit is power - those with more capital become more powerful. That's the reason Microsoft made this decision. They don't want the average person being able to easily make a local account, they'd much rather force everyone to register an account with them in order to even use their computer. It's just one further notch down the slippery slope of the end of private ownership and personal rights. A small notch, certainly. But it's a small notch in their overall endgame of putting general-purpose computing "back in the bottle" so to speak. Certain powers in this world want there to be less regulation for the moneymakers in this world. Centralized wealth has been a cancer on humanity for millennia, and we're nowhere near putting the proper amount of shackles on capitalism.
  - thaneross 4y ago
    I think most people don't realize this given how normalized it is. Wealth is a mechanism of distributing limited resources, and thus profit seeking without concern for externalities or creating value makes everyone else worse off.

gambiting 4y ago

I mean, sorry, but I consider that malicious. The OS can create a local account but doesn't give you that option specifically to make you create a windows Live account. That is almost textbook definition of malicious for me.

thelittleone 4y ago
What's may be more surprising than their malice is your surprise at their malice. These 'dark patterns' are so numerous now it's exhausting to remain duly outraged. I hope there's a future (or alternate universe) where dark patterns, such as this, result in economic loss rather than economic gain.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- pxc 4y ago
  They might be a Linux desktop user or a free software person in general. If you stick to F/OSS you might still live in a world where that stuff is pretty much entirely absent, experientally. Then the outrage comes in full force, as a kind of culture shock, whenever some external situation requires you to do something like set up a proprietary desktop operating system. > I hope there's a future (or alternate universe) where dark patterns, such as this, result in economic loss rather than economic gain. I agree. I wonder whether that can actually be achieved through end-user savviness alone.
justsomehnguy 4y ago
Ten years ago you needed iTunes to enable your iPhone/iPad. Sure there are probably was a way to skip most of the requirements (except iTunes itself) but around that time I helped a friend to activate an iPad. I was forced to register an Apple account AND give it a credit card to activate that iPad. You can blame MS all you want, but MS IS LATE FOR THE PARTY WITH ALL THAT SHIT.
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago

samb1729 4y ago

> Microsoft wants people to register online [...] in order to increase the market share of the Windows app store and other Microsoft online services > So it's not malicious I would have to firmly disagree there. Microsoft are pushing the notion that an online account with some identity provider is a necessity for home computing by hiding the (perfectly functional) option to create a local account.

deafpolygon 4y ago
The only reason why that functionality is still there at all is to avoid a lawsuit. "See, it's still implemented!" This is just frog in a boiling pot. Windows (and iOS) is becoming an OS as a service. Pretty soon you won't be able to use it without paying for something.

tveyben 4y ago

- This is My procedure (with Lan) to obtain a local Account on W10 Install Windows 10 and go through the OOBE - Select Region - Select Keyboard Layout - SKIP Secondary keyboard layout - Network connection - ENABLE Allow PC to be discoverable - Setup = For personal use - Account = Offline account - like old times - a completely standalone PC - Sign in = Limited experience - ignore the nudging to make an online account - User account = <my initials> - as this gets used for the name of the home folder and I don't want my full name for that - No password - to avoid the nonsense socalled "security questions". Password will be set later *after* completing the installation - Location usage = No - Find my device = No - Diagnostic data = Required only - Improve inking = No - Tailored experience = No - Advertising ID = No - Customise experience = Skip - Set a password for the account

867-5309 4y ago
you can just skip enabling internet. weirdly, on some machines this results in a reboot, but it's fine

rnd0 4y ago

> So it's not malicious, Microsoft is just implementing their strategy to create more monetization opportunities. So it's not malicious -it's just malicious. Gotcha!

xxs 4y ago

that's tying, an anti competitive feature. Illegal too

temac 4y ago

It is absolutely malicious tho ugh, because Windows works perfectly fine with only a local account, and tbh it would still be malicious, and actually even more malicious, if they managed to change windows to make it not work anymore with just a local account. I suspect they won't and that nrobypass or something equivalent will remain for the forrseable future. Maybe a regulation authority will even force them to provide back the offline option out of the box.

josephcsible 4y ago

That explanation is exactly what I meant by malice. Microsoft is trying to force people to do something to their own computers that they don't want to do and that isn't actually necessary to do.