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Is it spelled out clearly what exactly Elizabeth Holmes was convicted of committing investor fraud for? Was it this? > Holmes admitted on the stand that Thera

Is it spelled out clearly what exactly Elizabeth Holmes was convicted of committing investor fraud for? Was it this? > Holmes admitted on the stand that Theranos was running blood tests on modified third-party machines without telling its business partners and that she added the logos of two pharmaceutical companies to studies that the company sent to investors. This seems like everyday, standard startup procedure. Was there a lot more?

tptacek 4y ago
Yes. There was a lot more.
mrkramer 4y ago
Theranos used Siemens machines to perform blood tests instead of their "miracle" machines. German engineers know how to get the job done!
- soperj 4y ago
  They didn't work with the amount of blood that they were providing.
- oldgradstudent 4y ago
  They were using smaller amounts of blood and diluting them outside the machines' spec. Not much even German engineers can do about that.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    Why can't she claim they made some dumb modification - and combined with using the Siemans machine out of spec - that it was the "Theranos Machine"? This seems like startup 101. On one hand, I can see why it's fraud. On the other hand, I can't - because it seems indistinguishable from a lot of businesses.
    - voisin 4y ago
      > This seems like startup 101. On one hand, I can see why it's fraud. On the other hand, I can't - because it seems indistinguishable from a lot of businesses. This is the problem right here. Fake it till you make it bullshit. Rather than actually innovating, just pretend you are.
    - Nursie 4y ago
      > Why can't she claim they made some dumb modification - and combined with using the Siemans machine out of spec - that it was the "Theranos Machine"? Well, because we're talking about medical diagnosis, not a note-taking app. You don't get to just make claims, you need to prove them.
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
Not only was it clearly spelled out (this is a federal court, after all), but the judge specifically identified the 11 investors who were defrauded and the total amount of fraudulent gains to come up with that $140 million (the prosecution wanted it to be based on $800 million).
fourseventy 4y ago
Read Bad Blood and you will understand why.
throw422223 4y ago
[flagged]
- civilized 4y ago
  I really want to know, who is the male business executive who endangered the health of thousands of people by giving them faulty medical information, or something similarly serious, and wasn't punished? I have heard many people say this about Holmes, but never with an example. It has begun to seem like a presumption of sexism is its own evidence, no actual evidence needed.

tptacek 4y ago

Yes. There was a lot more.

mrkramer 4y ago

Theranos used Siemens machines to perform blood tests instead of their "miracle" machines. German engineers know how to get the job done!

soperj 4y ago
They didn't work with the amount of blood that they were providing.
oldgradstudent 4y ago
They were using smaller amounts of blood and diluting them outside the machines' spec. Not much even German engineers can do about that.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  Why can't she claim they made some dumb modification - and combined with using the Siemans machine out of spec - that it was the "Theranos Machine"? This seems like startup 101. On one hand, I can see why it's fraud. On the other hand, I can't - because it seems indistinguishable from a lot of businesses.
  - voisin 4y ago
    > This seems like startup 101. On one hand, I can see why it's fraud. On the other hand, I can't - because it seems indistinguishable from a lot of businesses. This is the problem right here. Fake it till you make it bullshit. Rather than actually innovating, just pretend you are.
  - Nursie 4y ago
    > Why can't she claim they made some dumb modification - and combined with using the Siemans machine out of spec - that it was the "Theranos Machine"? Well, because we're talking about medical diagnosis, not a note-taking app. You don't get to just make claims, you need to prove them.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

Not only was it clearly spelled out (this is a federal court, after all), but the judge specifically identified the 11 investors who were defrauded and the total amount of fraudulent gains to come up with that $140 million (the prosecution wanted it to be based on $800 million).

fourseventy 4y ago

Read Bad Blood and you will understand why.

throw422223 4y ago

[flagged]

civilized 4y ago
I really want to know, who is the male business executive who endangered the health of thousands of people by giving them faulty medical information, or something similarly serious, and wasn't punished? I have heard many people say this about Holmes, but never with an example. It has begun to seem like a presumption of sexism is its own evidence, no actual evidence needed.