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Seems excessive to me. I don't really care about people conning rich people into parting with their money, especially when they don't bother to do basic due dil

Seems excessive to me. I don't really care about people conning rich people into parting with their money, especially when they don't bother to do basic due diligence before hand.

moab 4y ago
It wasn’t just rich people. What about the patients that were lied to? The employees?
- wilsonnb3 4y ago
  She didn’t get charged or convicted for that as far as I am aware
  - shapefrog 4y ago
    Charged, tried and not guilty. "Holmes was acquitted on three charges relating to patients who received inaccurate test results but found guilty on four charges, including one count of conspiracy to defraud investors and three counts of wire fraud against investors."
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
lazide 4y ago
Let’s put things in perspective. A typical median families income was approx. $70k in 2021. That covers multiple people, and in general across the US is enough to pay for housing, schooling, medical care, etc. A lifetime of that (inflation adjusted) is usually enough for someone to retire somewhere. If you take the 48 years from 18 to social security retirement age of 66, that would make a median lifetimes earnings $3,360,000 in 2021 dollars. Holmes got nearly $1bln from investors in the Theranos mess, which is 297 lifetimes worth of median earnings, which considering that directly maps to someone (or multiple someones) working hard for that time, can be consider ‘life’s works’. She was convicted of fraud on at least $140 million of wire transfers out of that, or ‘only’ 41 life’s works. While 11 years is a long time, the destruction of value done is nothing to scoff at. With decent leadership, 300 people working for their entire lives could accomplish a lot of great things. Of course, it could also be blown on crypto scams and lambos. It’s not a perfect comparison.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Ah, someone else is a student of Mr Pump. However, there's a consideration - if I somehow steal $1m from Elon, it materially doesn't affect him that much at all. But if I steal $5k from a McDonald's employee, it could ruin them.
  - lazide 4y ago
    What’s that old saw? “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal loaves of bread.” -Anatole France
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  I dont think that is the right way to look at it. She didn't incinerate the money, she spent it, it went somewhere else. It went to workers and other companies. Now maybe that money could have been spent to commission 300 workers to make great things. Maybe it would have gone to pump up the S&P 500 or some shitcoin. The problem is that she used false pretexts to get and spend the money.
  - lazide 4y ago
    The ‘life’s work’ metric doesn’t say it’s wasted - it ends up folks pockets, of course, eventually. And some of that will of course also go into things which are more than ‘just’ living. It’s what it was directed to accomplish, and if that activity produced something of equivalent value (or more) on it’s journey to that state, or dissipated into heat and noise. Near as I can tell, Theranos was at least 99% heat and noise.
- wilsonnb3 4y ago
  If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a noise? Or in other words, if a rich person is defrauded and they still have enough money to live a life of lavish luxury, was a crime still committed?
  - 4y ago
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
IMO the reason Holmes deserves to be locked up for a long time is not just because of the fraud she committed, but the way she tried to use her power and her powerful friends to destroy people whose only crime was telling the truth. Seriously, read Bad Blood, see what she tried to do to Tyler Schultz, Erika Cheung, and Rochelle Gibbons (the widow of the Theranos scientist that committed suicide), among many others. The best analogy I can think of is Lance Armstrong's fraud. Yes, his cheating and lying about it was bad, but I guess at least somewhat understandable given the culture of cycling at the time. But the reason I despise the man is due to his mafioso tactics of intimidation he used to silence people. Holmes did the exact same.
dirtyid 4y ago
Seems not enough - "misdiagnosis" / fake results also fucked over average joe.

Seems excessive to me. I don't really care about people conning rich people into parting with their money, especially when they don't bother to do basic due diligence before hand.

moab 4y ago

It wasn’t just rich people. What about the patients that were lied to? The employees?

wilsonnb3 4y ago
She didn’t get charged or convicted for that as far as I am aware
- shapefrog 4y ago
  Charged, tried and not guilty. "Holmes was acquitted on three charges relating to patients who received inaccurate test results but found guilty on four charges, including one count of conspiracy to defraud investors and three counts of wire fraud against investors."
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

lazide 4y ago

Let’s put things in perspective. A typical median families income was approx. $70k in 2021. That covers multiple people, and in general across the US is enough to pay for housing, schooling, medical care, etc. A lifetime of that (inflation adjusted) is usually enough for someone to retire somewhere. If you take the 48 years from 18 to social security retirement age of 66, that would make a median lifetimes earnings $3,360,000 in 2021 dollars. Holmes got nearly $1bln from investors in the Theranos mess, which is 297 lifetimes worth of median earnings, which considering that directly maps to someone (or multiple someones) working hard for that time, can be consider ‘life’s works’. She was convicted of fraud on at least $140 million of wire transfers out of that, or ‘only’ 41 life’s works. While 11 years is a long time, the destruction of value done is nothing to scoff at. With decent leadership, 300 people working for their entire lives could accomplish a lot of great things. Of course, it could also be blown on crypto scams and lambos. It’s not a perfect comparison.

bombcar 4y ago
Ah, someone else is a student of Mr Pump. However, there's a consideration - if I somehow steal $1m from Elon, it materially doesn't affect him that much at all. But if I steal $5k from a McDonald's employee, it could ruin them.
- lazide 4y ago
  What’s that old saw? “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal loaves of bread.” -Anatole France
s1artibartfast 4y ago
I dont think that is the right way to look at it. She didn't incinerate the money, she spent it, it went somewhere else. It went to workers and other companies. Now maybe that money could have been spent to commission 300 workers to make great things. Maybe it would have gone to pump up the S&P 500 or some shitcoin. The problem is that she used false pretexts to get and spend the money.
- lazide 4y ago
  The ‘life’s work’ metric doesn’t say it’s wasted - it ends up folks pockets, of course, eventually. And some of that will of course also go into things which are more than ‘just’ living. It’s what it was directed to accomplish, and if that activity produced something of equivalent value (or more) on it’s journey to that state, or dissipated into heat and noise. Near as I can tell, Theranos was at least 99% heat and noise.
wilsonnb3 4y ago
If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a noise? Or in other words, if a rich person is defrauded and they still have enough money to live a life of lavish luxury, was a crime still committed?
- 4y ago

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

IMO the reason Holmes deserves to be locked up for a long time is not just because of the fraud she committed, but the way she tried to use her power and her powerful friends to destroy people whose only crime was telling the truth. Seriously, read Bad Blood, see what she tried to do to Tyler Schultz, Erika Cheung, and Rochelle Gibbons (the widow of the Theranos scientist that committed suicide), among many others. The best analogy I can think of is Lance Armstrong's fraud. Yes, his cheating and lying about it was bad, but I guess at least somewhat understandable given the culture of cycling at the time. But the reason I despise the man is due to his mafioso tactics of intimidation he used to silence people. Holmes did the exact same.

dirtyid 4y ago

Seems not enough - "misdiagnosis" / fake results also fucked over average joe.