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Manual transmissions are more efficient than automatic because there is more energy lost to unproductive sloshing in the torque converter in the automatic, wher

Manual transmissions are more efficient than automatic because there is more energy lost to unproductive sloshing in the torque converter in the automatic, whereas the manual has a clutch that makes a near-lossless linkage. Nowadays, I'm sure we could software-automate a mechanically manual transmission to have the same driver experience as an automatic...

ComputerGuru 4y ago
It’s already a thing, but was widely derided by both manual and automatic proponents (for different reasons): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_manual_transmission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_manual_transmission
- hot_gril 4y ago
  I have one of those in my '06 Maserati. It's a pain in the ass in some ways, but it's still more fun than automatic.
loeg 4y ago
> Nowadays, I'm sure we could software-automate a mechanically manual transmission to have the same driver experience as an automatic... Paddle-shifters and CVTs, right?
Klonoar 4y ago
This was true decades ago when the dominant automatic transmission was torque-converter junk. This hasn't been the case for some time now, though. The modern automatic transmission (e.g, Porsche's PDK, or any the DCTs, or even the ZF8) will win every time. Driving a manual is pretty much only for feel or technique at this point, there's no real argument otherwise.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  Can you clutch start a modern auto? I've clutch started a manual more often than I can count.
  - Gibbon1 4y ago
    When I was young an dumb I drove a car with a dead starter to work and back for a week. I'd bump start it by pushing it up to the crown of the street. I think a classic automatic transmission needs hydraulic pressure to engage the bands. And since the gear pump is on the input shaft side it doesn't run when the car is pushed or towed.
  - mprovost 4y ago
    "The old Model A had a spark advance you could manipulate. I don't know why they got rid of it. Well, that's your Detroit smarties. The hand choke too. That's gone. Been gone." - Charles Portis, The Dog of the South, 1979
  - Klonoar 4y ago
    You can't even clutch start some modern manuals.
- hot_gril 4y ago
  Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought "automatic transmission" refers to one with a torque converter, and DCT is its own thing.
  - Klonoar 4y ago
    They're lumped together under "automatic transmission" insofar as the industry goes, however yes - the DCT is very different under the hood. In this case, though, an automatic transmission is - for all intents and purposes - a transmission that does not require the driver to handle shifting at all. The DCT fits in this category.
  - masklinn 4y ago
    > Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought "automatic transmission" refers to one with a torque converter, and DCT is its own thing. AT is "the car changes gears". Sometimes a distinction is made between AMT and others because AMT is kinda shit, but both DCT and torque are AT. Also modern torque converters have lock-up clutches, meaning once they've switched gear they've got the same direct-coupling efficiency as a DCT. The ZF8 mentioned by Klonoar is a torque converter.
    - Klonoar 4y ago
      >The ZF8 mentioned by Klonoar is a torque converter. Ha, you're right! I don't have the energy to go edit my parent comment but hopefully it's clear (or at least, now) that I meant old school vs modern AT transmissions. Thanks for the correction!
- postalrat 4y ago
  I don't drive any of those cars. Very few people do.
  - Klonoar 4y ago
    Well, no - when it comes to the modern manual transmission, we're now mostly discussing these kinds of cars. The manual is rare (and moreso by the year) in just about every other segment.

ComputerGuru 4y ago

It’s already a thing, but was widely derided by both manual and automatic proponents (for different reasons): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_manual_transmission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_manual_transmission

hot_gril 4y ago
I have one of those in my '06 Maserati. It's a pain in the ass in some ways, but it's still more fun than automatic.

loeg 4y ago

> Nowadays, I'm sure we could software-automate a mechanically manual transmission to have the same driver experience as an automatic... Paddle-shifters and CVTs, right?

Klonoar 4y ago

This was true decades ago when the dominant automatic transmission was torque-converter junk. This hasn't been the case for some time now, though. The modern automatic transmission (e.g, Porsche's PDK, or any the DCTs, or even the ZF8) will win every time. Driving a manual is pretty much only for feel or technique at this point, there's no real argument otherwise.

WalterBright 4y ago
Can you clutch start a modern auto? I've clutch started a manual more often than I can count.
- Gibbon1 4y ago
  When I was young an dumb I drove a car with a dead starter to work and back for a week. I'd bump start it by pushing it up to the crown of the street. I think a classic automatic transmission needs hydraulic pressure to engage the bands. And since the gear pump is on the input shaft side it doesn't run when the car is pushed or towed.
- mprovost 4y ago
  "The old Model A had a spark advance you could manipulate. I don't know why they got rid of it. Well, that's your Detroit smarties. The hand choke too. That's gone. Been gone." - Charles Portis, The Dog of the South, 1979
- Klonoar 4y ago
  You can't even clutch start some modern manuals.
hot_gril 4y ago
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought "automatic transmission" refers to one with a torque converter, and DCT is its own thing.
- Klonoar 4y ago
  They're lumped together under "automatic transmission" insofar as the industry goes, however yes - the DCT is very different under the hood. In this case, though, an automatic transmission is - for all intents and purposes - a transmission that does not require the driver to handle shifting at all. The DCT fits in this category.
- masklinn 4y ago
  > Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought "automatic transmission" refers to one with a torque converter, and DCT is its own thing. AT is "the car changes gears". Sometimes a distinction is made between AMT and others because AMT is kinda shit, but both DCT and torque are AT. Also modern torque converters have lock-up clutches, meaning once they've switched gear they've got the same direct-coupling efficiency as a DCT. The ZF8 mentioned by Klonoar is a torque converter.
  - Klonoar 4y ago
    >The ZF8 mentioned by Klonoar is a torque converter. Ha, you're right! I don't have the energy to go edit my parent comment but hopefully it's clear (or at least, now) that I meant old school vs modern AT transmissions. Thanks for the correction!
postalrat 4y ago
I don't drive any of those cars. Very few people do.
- Klonoar 4y ago
  Well, no - when it comes to the modern manual transmission, we're now mostly discussing these kinds of cars. The manual is rare (and moreso by the year) in just about every other segment.