4 ms·

Is it normal for there to be a sentencing and then be free for 5 months before going to prison? I always assumed after a sentencing you went straight to prison

Is it normal for there to be a sentencing and then be free for 5 months before going to prison? I always assumed after a sentencing you went straight to prison. What's the rationale for waiting? To listen to appeals?

dannykwells 4y ago
Elizabeth is expecting and will give birth in early 2023. This is a mercy for the judge to allow her to not give birth in prison.
- notch656a 4y ago
  Or the judge trolling so that she'll pop out the kid and have some days to bond, and as soon as life feels somewhat normal and together the kid will be ripped away and she'll be tossed in a place full of gnashing of teeth and suffering.
  - Phlarp 4y ago
    A stunning indictment of the American penal system delivered as some sort of flex?
  - carl_dr 4y ago
    She knew she had a high chance of incarceration, it’s the kids that’ll suffer, not her.
    - dismantlethesun 4y ago
      Suffer how exactly? The kids will have a father outside of prison, two sets of grandparents and several times more money devoted to them than the median American income. If anything being kept away from the care of their fraudster unapologetic mother would be a boon , not suffering.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - loeg 4y ago
        > Suffer how exactly? Growing up without their mom for their first decade? Jesus christ man.
        tick_tock_tick 4y ago
        > Growing up without their mom for their first decade? Jesus christ man. Growing up without a mom is a hardship. Growing up without her as their mother is a blessing.
        smabie 4y ago
        I'd rather have her as a mom then no mom
        notch656a 4y ago
        The father is a rich and reasonably attractive dude. I do not think biological mom necessarily has to mean de facto mom. I doubt a custody order will be difficult with real mom in for a dime of prison. This could be a golden opportunity for those kids.
        dismantlethesun 4y ago
        I am really surprised by the amount of sympathy given to her as their mother. Do you not believe a bad mother is worse than no mother?
        lelanthran 4y ago
        >> Suffer how exactly? > Growing up without their mom for their first decade? Jesus christ man. Nonsense. The courts, the social welfare system and a significant number of both men and women have already, for decades, formally decided that removing one parent from a child is alright. Why should they make an exception for this child?
      - nunez 4y ago
Swenrekcah 4y ago
Probably two ways. First, for people to get their affairs in order. For example you don’t need a lease or can sell or rent out your house or something. Second, for the prison facility to make sure there’s a free space for the incoming person. Edit: Someone pointed out she’s pregnant, so there’s that…
- metadat 4y ago
  Many women have given birth whilst incarcerated without receiving special consideration.
  - from 4y ago
    There are 3 possibilities to explain this. 1) Their crime was more violent in nature 2) They had a prior record and could be considered a danger to the community 3) Their lawyers weren't as good as Holmes' were
jquery 4y ago
Yeah, can someone explain this? Meanwhile if you’re poor and can’t afford bail you might spend 3 years in jail awaiting trial: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder
- Swenrekcah 4y ago
  Wow that case you linked is disgusting! I detest the kind of fraud Holmes perpetrated, but I very much support treating people with dignity. So the problem isn’t that she gets to wait outside prison but that many others don’t get to. Especially this guy, wasn’t even a violent offence. Just absolutely despicable treatment.
- tedunangst 4y ago
  Federal courts work differently than state courts.
- tsol 4y ago
  >During his imprisonment, Browder was in solitary confinement for 700 days. That's another problem of it's own.
Phlarp 4y ago
For rich and connected people convicted of white collar crimes it's very common. It's also common for upper class criminals to arrange the terms of their own work release-- where they are employed by a company they own and are free 12+ hours a day, only returning to custody to sleep. (Epstein did this with his first conviction) For the rest of the population without money, power or connections accused of drug crimes or petty theft it's typical that you will be arrested and placed in jail immediately and will be in custody until you are convicted / sentenced at which point you will go directly to prison.
- from 4y ago
  Most people who aren't allowed voluntarily surrender weren't granted bail to begin with because they were either ruled a danger to the community or they were deemed an excessive flight risk. Plenty of "low level" criminals are allowed to turn themselves in, read enough cases on https://www.courtlistener.com/pacer https://www.courtlistener.com/pacer and you'll see it's not unusual.
  - Phlarp 4y ago
    Sure, and plenty of innocent people rot in jail for months before their trial because they can't afford the cash bail. That Americans are at all proud of such a system is disgusting.
    - from 4y ago
      People who defend bail just see bail as something that maximizes the likelihood the accused actually show up to court. In a high trust society it wouldn't be necessary, but we don't have that. Most people who are arrested are actually guilty of a crime which is why there is a 95% conviction rate in the federal system and ~75% across the states. Accordingly "society" has an interest in keeping the non criminal population safe and that is the origin of bail. It is unfortunate that many defendants, especially those who are already marginalized, are unable to exercise their speedy trial rights due to a combination of government incompetence, overwhelmed public defenders, and indigence but I wouldn't say anyone is proud of that.
tarunupaday 4y ago
in US - and specially for federal crimes - its very routine for the courts to give some time for the person to report to prison. This allows the person sentenced to get their affairs in order. I know somebody who is sentenced for 10 years. The court gave him 2 months which actually is not enough for all the items he need to wrap up. To give an idea, this person needs to: - sell his house (who will pay the mortgage now that he is in prison) - sell his car - donate / get rid of his clothes and most of his belongings (or leave them in care of family / storage) - cancel all the subscriptions and utilities - take care of any medical needs - inform all the people who might reach out to him so they can communicate with him - more… On the correction system side, they also need time to figure out where to send this person and create the space there: - If the person sentenced has any medical needs they will ask for a “medical” facility (connected to a hospital) and usually nicer. - the person sentenced might request a correction facility that is closer to his loved ones (the guy I know requested and going to a facility in Texas even though he lives in Florida as his closest relative is his sister who lives near that facility) - other factors include doing tests / analysis to figure out should the person go to level 1 security (minimum) or something higher; is the person considered a risk to other inmates? are other inmates considered a risk to this person (common for cops, sexual offenders etc) Of course, if the person is considered a flight risk or violence risk - they will just send him/her to the nearest county jail and then figure out the rest. Overall, a lot of logistics and consideration is given to an inmate - specially in a federal system.
ddoolin 4y ago
Yes! My experience is state/county, but you can actually ask the court to give you more time before surrendering to commence your sentence. In my case, I was by default given 2 months before I had to surrender. From what I remember/know, courts are generally pretty respectful if you ask for more time (depending on reasoning/circumstances). If you've shown up all the way to sentencing, you're likely not a huge flight risk.

dannykwells 4y ago

Elizabeth is expecting and will give birth in early 2023. This is a mercy for the judge to allow her to not give birth in prison.

notch656a 4y ago
Or the judge trolling so that she'll pop out the kid and have some days to bond, and as soon as life feels somewhat normal and together the kid will be ripped away and she'll be tossed in a place full of gnashing of teeth and suffering.
- Phlarp 4y ago
  A stunning indictment of the American penal system delivered as some sort of flex?
- carl_dr 4y ago
  She knew she had a high chance of incarceration, it’s the kids that’ll suffer, not her.
  - dismantlethesun 4y ago
    Suffer how exactly? The kids will have a father outside of prison, two sets of grandparents and several times more money devoted to them than the median American income. If anything being kept away from the care of their fraudster unapologetic mother would be a boon , not suffering.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - loeg 4y ago
      > Suffer how exactly? Growing up without their mom for their first decade? Jesus christ man.
      - tick_tock_tick 4y ago
        > Growing up without their mom for their first decade? Jesus christ man. Growing up without a mom is a hardship. Growing up without her as their mother is a blessing.
        smabie 4y ago
        I'd rather have her as a mom then no mom
      - notch656a 4y ago
        The father is a rich and reasonably attractive dude. I do not think biological mom necessarily has to mean de facto mom. I doubt a custody order will be difficult with real mom in for a dime of prison. This could be a golden opportunity for those kids.
      - dismantlethesun 4y ago
        I am really surprised by the amount of sympathy given to her as their mother. Do you not believe a bad mother is worse than no mother?
      - lelanthran 4y ago
        >> Suffer how exactly? > Growing up without their mom for their first decade? Jesus christ man. Nonsense. The courts, the social welfare system and a significant number of both men and women have already, for decades, formally decided that removing one parent from a child is alright. Why should they make an exception for this child?
    - nunez 4y ago

Swenrekcah 4y ago

Probably two ways. First, for people to get their affairs in order. For example you don’t need a lease or can sell or rent out your house or something. Second, for the prison facility to make sure there’s a free space for the incoming person. Edit: Someone pointed out she’s pregnant, so there’s that…

metadat 4y ago
Many women have given birth whilst incarcerated without receiving special consideration.
- from 4y ago
  There are 3 possibilities to explain this. 1) Their crime was more violent in nature 2) They had a prior record and could be considered a danger to the community 3) Their lawyers weren't as good as Holmes' were

jquery 4y ago

Yeah, can someone explain this? Meanwhile if you’re poor and can’t afford bail you might spend 3 years in jail awaiting trial: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder

Swenrekcah 4y ago
Wow that case you linked is disgusting! I detest the kind of fraud Holmes perpetrated, but I very much support treating people with dignity. So the problem isn’t that she gets to wait outside prison but that many others don’t get to. Especially this guy, wasn’t even a violent offence. Just absolutely despicable treatment.
tedunangst 4y ago
Federal courts work differently than state courts.
tsol 4y ago
>During his imprisonment, Browder was in solitary confinement for 700 days. That's another problem of it's own.

Phlarp 4y ago

For rich and connected people convicted of white collar crimes it's very common. It's also common for upper class criminals to arrange the terms of their own work release-- where they are employed by a company they own and are free 12+ hours a day, only returning to custody to sleep. (Epstein did this with his first conviction) For the rest of the population without money, power or connections accused of drug crimes or petty theft it's typical that you will be arrested and placed in jail immediately and will be in custody until you are convicted / sentenced at which point you will go directly to prison.

from 4y ago
Most people who aren't allowed voluntarily surrender weren't granted bail to begin with because they were either ruled a danger to the community or they were deemed an excessive flight risk. Plenty of "low level" criminals are allowed to turn themselves in, read enough cases on https://www.courtlistener.com/pacer https://www.courtlistener.com/pacer and you'll see it's not unusual.
- Phlarp 4y ago
  Sure, and plenty of innocent people rot in jail for months before their trial because they can't afford the cash bail. That Americans are at all proud of such a system is disgusting.
  - from 4y ago
    People who defend bail just see bail as something that maximizes the likelihood the accused actually show up to court. In a high trust society it wouldn't be necessary, but we don't have that. Most people who are arrested are actually guilty of a crime which is why there is a 95% conviction rate in the federal system and ~75% across the states. Accordingly "society" has an interest in keeping the non criminal population safe and that is the origin of bail. It is unfortunate that many defendants, especially those who are already marginalized, are unable to exercise their speedy trial rights due to a combination of government incompetence, overwhelmed public defenders, and indigence but I wouldn't say anyone is proud of that.

tarunupaday 4y ago

in US - and specially for federal crimes - its very routine for the courts to give some time for the person to report to prison. This allows the person sentenced to get their affairs in order. I know somebody who is sentenced for 10 years. The court gave him 2 months which actually is not enough for all the items he need to wrap up. To give an idea, this person needs to: - sell his house (who will pay the mortgage now that he is in prison) - sell his car - donate / get rid of his clothes and most of his belongings (or leave them in care of family / storage) - cancel all the subscriptions and utilities - take care of any medical needs - inform all the people who might reach out to him so they can communicate with him - more… On the correction system side, they also need time to figure out where to send this person and create the space there: - If the person sentenced has any medical needs they will ask for a “medical” facility (connected to a hospital) and usually nicer. - the person sentenced might request a correction facility that is closer to his loved ones (the guy I know requested and going to a facility in Texas even though he lives in Florida as his closest relative is his sister who lives near that facility) - other factors include doing tests / analysis to figure out should the person go to level 1 security (minimum) or something higher; is the person considered a risk to other inmates? are other inmates considered a risk to this person (common for cops, sexual offenders etc) Of course, if the person is considered a flight risk or violence risk - they will just send him/her to the nearest county jail and then figure out the rest. Overall, a lot of logistics and consideration is given to an inmate - specially in a federal system.

ddoolin 4y ago

Yes! My experience is state/county, but you can actually ask the court to give you more time before surrendering to commence your sentence. In my case, I was by default given 2 months before I had to surrender. From what I remember/know, courts are generally pretty respectful if you ask for more time (depending on reasoning/circumstances). If you've shown up all the way to sentencing, you're likely not a huge flight risk.