4 ms·

Yeah, it's very reasonable but it's also the status quo prior to Elon buying twitter. Elon openly attacked twitter for its moderation policies and made a public

Yeah, it's very reasonable but it's also the status quo prior to Elon buying twitter. Elon openly attacked twitter for its moderation policies and made a public spectacle about big tech censorship and styled himself as "free speech absolutist" in his own words. Now that Elon's own money is on the line he's completely done a 180 and is using the exact same reasoning to defend his moderation policies as did his detractors when he was on the other side trashing twitter. Elon is, as usual, totally full of shit, people have a natural disdain for flippant dishonesty.

nomel 4y ago
> but it's also the status quo prior to Elon buying twitter. Wasn't the status quo to ban accounts completely, due to individual tweets, rather than hide individual tweets? This seems much much more permissive.
- root_axis 4y ago
  Twitter has historically utilized a wide range of moderation strategies including deranking, post removals, fact checking blurbs, temporary bans, permanent bans and more.
  - nomel 4y ago
    It appears that three of these that you listed, which are the most silencing, will no longer be used (assuming legal content): post removals, temporary bans, permanent bans. I don't understand how the new policy is "status quo", if this is true. That's a very significant change of policy.
    - heavyset_go 4y ago
      > It appears that three of these that you listed, which are the most silencing, will no longer be used (assuming legal content): post removals, temporary bans, permanent bans. This is not the case given that Twitter has removed posts[1] and banned accounts that were critical of Musk[2]. [1] https://external-preview.redd.it/LvQhCbGd3mXlAjyj0GktvQaAJ_3IDOLje2eCXdbgn1g.jpg?width=506&auto=webp&s=25b4e598a5c37d1c339d0af050af72804c640bb4 https://external-preview.redd.it/LvQhCbGd3mXlAjyj0GktvQaAJ_3... [2] https://i.redd.it/5hgt89c599y91.jpg https://i.redd.it/5hgt89c599y91.jpg
      - nomel 4y ago
        These twitter screenshots from reddit are marked 7-Nov-2022 and 4-Nov-2022.
    - root_axis 4y ago
      Nothing that Elon said suggests that twitter will no longer issue bans or remove posts. In fact, we know that permanent bans are still in place, and he will obviously continue to do both.
      - ziml77 4y ago
        In place and just as arbitrary as ever. Just this morning someone I follow had an 18+-only alt account of theirs suspended when they blocked a minor who was following that account.
      - nomel 4y ago
        > Nothing that Elon said suggests that twitter will no longer issue bans or remove posts. I don't see anyone claiming that there will be no bans. I take this post as communication that comments, that previously would have been banned, will be max de-boosted, instead.
- blitzar 4y ago
  The status quo - to ban accounts completely, due to repeated violations combined with refusal to remove violating content. More permissive perhaps, but not by much, and Trump remains banned - so bans remain a part of the toolkit.
  - nomel 4y ago
    > More permissive perhaps, but not by much I don't understand this perspective. The Babylon Bee was banned for misgendering someone. It looks like they would not be banned under the new policy. That is an extreme difference.
    - blitzar 4y ago
      "We're told our account will be restored in 12 hours, but the countdown won't begin until we delete the tweet that violates the Twitter Rules." They opted out by not deleting the tweet. Under the new policy the tweet would just not really appear with or without the consent of the user. "We're not deleting anything. Truth is not hate speech. If the cost of telling the truth is the loss of our Twitter account, then so be it."
      - nomel 4y ago
        > They opted out by not deleting the tweet. This is misleading. They were banned for the tweet. They opted out of removing the tweet, which would lift the ban. In the new policy, they would not be banned for the tweet. The fact that they were banned in the old policy, and would not be banned in the new policy, is irrefutable proof that the policies are very different, which means, by definition, it's not "status quo": status quo: the existing state of affairs, especially regarding social or political issues.
        blitzar 4y ago
        Were employees who didnt click the "sign up for twitter 2.0 hardcore" banned from their jobs or did they resign?
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  I don't know about the past, but what you're describing is the current status quo[1]. [1] https://i.redd.it/5hgt89c599y91.jpg https://i.redd.it/5hgt89c599y91.jpg
- kevingadd 4y ago
  Enforcement was historically quite lax, especially for public figures. It's quite common to see a tweet which is just a screenshot of the "we locked your account until you delete this bad tweet" popup that someone got for posting something horrible, and the screenshot (containing the post that got them actioned!) doesn't get deleted. It takes a lot of boundary pushing to get your account nuked unless you get targeted by DMCA notices or you REALLY piss off someone with connections.

nomel 4y ago

> but it's also the status quo prior to Elon buying twitter. Wasn't the status quo to ban accounts completely, due to individual tweets, rather than hide individual tweets? This seems much much more permissive.

root_axis 4y ago
Twitter has historically utilized a wide range of moderation strategies including deranking, post removals, fact checking blurbs, temporary bans, permanent bans and more.
- nomel 4y ago
  It appears that three of these that you listed, which are the most silencing, will no longer be used (assuming legal content): post removals, temporary bans, permanent bans. I don't understand how the new policy is "status quo", if this is true. That's a very significant change of policy.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    > It appears that three of these that you listed, which are the most silencing, will no longer be used (assuming legal content): post removals, temporary bans, permanent bans. This is not the case given that Twitter has removed posts[1] and banned accounts that were critical of Musk[2]. [1] https://external-preview.redd.it/LvQhCbGd3mXlAjyj0GktvQaAJ_3IDOLje2eCXdbgn1g.jpg?width=506&auto=webp&s=25b4e598a5c37d1c339d0af050af72804c640bb4 https://external-preview.redd.it/LvQhCbGd3mXlAjyj0GktvQaAJ_3... [2] https://i.redd.it/5hgt89c599y91.jpg https://i.redd.it/5hgt89c599y91.jpg
    - nomel 4y ago
      These twitter screenshots from reddit are marked 7-Nov-2022 and 4-Nov-2022.
  - root_axis 4y ago
    Nothing that Elon said suggests that twitter will no longer issue bans or remove posts. In fact, we know that permanent bans are still in place, and he will obviously continue to do both.
    - ziml77 4y ago
      In place and just as arbitrary as ever. Just this morning someone I follow had an 18+-only alt account of theirs suspended when they blocked a minor who was following that account.
    - nomel 4y ago
      > Nothing that Elon said suggests that twitter will no longer issue bans or remove posts. I don't see anyone claiming that there will be no bans. I take this post as communication that comments, that previously would have been banned, will be max de-boosted, instead.
blitzar 4y ago
The status quo - to ban accounts completely, due to repeated violations combined with refusal to remove violating content. More permissive perhaps, but not by much, and Trump remains banned - so bans remain a part of the toolkit.
- nomel 4y ago
  > More permissive perhaps, but not by much I don't understand this perspective. The Babylon Bee was banned for misgendering someone. It looks like they would not be banned under the new policy. That is an extreme difference.
  - blitzar 4y ago
    "We're told our account will be restored in 12 hours, but the countdown won't begin until we delete the tweet that violates the Twitter Rules." They opted out by not deleting the tweet. Under the new policy the tweet would just not really appear with or without the consent of the user. "We're not deleting anything. Truth is not hate speech. If the cost of telling the truth is the loss of our Twitter account, then so be it."
    - nomel 4y ago
      > They opted out by not deleting the tweet. This is misleading. They were banned for the tweet. They opted out of removing the tweet, which would lift the ban. In the new policy, they would not be banned for the tweet. The fact that they were banned in the old policy, and would not be banned in the new policy, is irrefutable proof that the policies are very different, which means, by definition, it's not "status quo": status quo: the existing state of affairs, especially regarding social or political issues.
      - blitzar 4y ago
        Were employees who didnt click the "sign up for twitter 2.0 hardcore" banned from their jobs or did they resign?
heavyset_go 4y ago
I don't know about the past, but what you're describing is the current status quo[1]. [1] https://i.redd.it/5hgt89c599y91.jpg https://i.redd.it/5hgt89c599y91.jpg
kevingadd 4y ago
Enforcement was historically quite lax, especially for public figures. It's quite common to see a tweet which is just a screenshot of the "we locked your account until you delete this bad tweet" popup that someone got for posting something horrible, and the screenshot (containing the post that got them actioned!) doesn't get deleted. It takes a lot of boundary pushing to get your account nuked unless you get targeted by DMCA notices or you REALLY piss off someone with connections.