5 ms·

as a heavy diesel mechanic the only application i can see is heavy trucks. current slushbox automatics in the latest series of long hauler over the road rigs i

as a heavy diesel mechanic the only application i can see is heavy trucks. current slushbox automatics in the latest series of long hauler over the road rigs is absolutely useless on grade and costs triple to replace and service compared to existing manuals. you dont want an unprovoked shift in the rain or snow when youre dragging forty tons.

bombcar 4y ago
Even those can likely be replaced with hybrids, after all a locomotive pulls a lot more (900,000 tons of steel according to the poet, but I think he's off a bit) and you can't build a transmission for that.
- nimbius 4y ago
  i think youre right and i think the market will adjust, but the current application is just trying to take what works on local and regional beer haulers and ups vans and scale it up. very myopic and leads to a lot of frustration when logistics companies realize their drivers arent qualified to leave the state with bigger loads because they never learned stick
  - Clent 4y ago
    I think this is why is would take off in trunks; probably anything that hauls. As the article states in the article, there is no engine to stall. This is more like vehicles with D, D1, D2. It's optional efficiency. For an electric vehicle, switching between them doesn't stall the vehicle, but it could be used to increase distance between charges.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      According to a random internet search, the average "semi truck" age is 11 years. So even if all brand-new trucks starting TODAY were fully electric with an electric/nonshifting drivetrain, it'd take 11-22 years to "clear out" the existing.
      - Symbiote 4y ago
        For a large country that's true, but regulations could adjust that. If you want to drive a truck into a city in Scandinavia or Germany, there's a good chance it needs to be newer. For example, to drive into Copenhagen a truck or bus must be from 2015 or later, or there's a €1700 fine. (https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/ https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/ has a list/map.) If you have a truck that's too old, you might have use for it elsewhere in Denmark, or you could sell it to someone who will drive it somewhere without these regulations and sell it there (i.e. eastern, southeastern Europe, Turkey, north Africa). There's a diagram that would be excellent if it weren't fuzzy on page 5 (Figure 2) demonstrating this nicely. It's not at all unusual to see a truck in Romania or Bulgaria which has the shadow of some German company logo/name on it, where the logos have been removed. https://www.acea.auto/figure/average-age-of-eu-vehicle-fleet-by-country/ https://www.acea.auto/figure/average-age-of-eu-vehicle-fleet... (Are there any similar rules in North America? I can see restrictions on new vehicles sold in California, but nothing on what you can drive in.)
- Animats 4y ago
  Well, you can, but the history of locomotives with gearshifts is not a happy one. British Rail in the 1950s had a Diesel road locomotive (not just a railcar) with a manual transmission. The shifting was powered, but not automatic. Hitachi has built some switching locomotives with geared transmissions and a really big 12-plate clutch. But no, you don't want to do that.
  - nomel 4y ago
    > really big 12-plate clutch Here's a video showing a multi-plate clutch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcYsV063lk8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcYsV063lk8 Only being familiar with simple car transmissions, wow! That's a lot of friction. Key concept seems to be, for some pressure force, you get N times the friction force.
    - Animats 4y ago
      Yes. For locomotives, the big problem is 0 to 0.1mph time. It's like 13 speed tractor-trailer transmissions, only worse. The fun version of this.[1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-1EZ6K7bpQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-1EZ6K7bpQ
throwawaaarrgh 4y ago
EV heavy duty trucks transmissions are 2-4 gears due to the high torque band. ICE vehicle engines must maintain a minimum idle speed and so a torque converter has to be used to match speed. But EV engines can run just fine at 1 RPM, so the vehicle can easily start from a dead stop in first gear automatically. Just put it in gear and press the accelerator.
- ilyt 4y ago
  EV doesn't need "gear" in the first place, engine can be directly connected at all times. There are some EVs that have 2 speed gear box to get max of the performance out of the engine but that's almost exclusively for performance vehicles.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    EV heavy duty trucks are also high performance vehicle.
  - hot_gril 4y ago
    Single-gear EVs are significantly less efficient at freeway speeds. They can benefit from a second gear, but it seems this isn't considered worth the extra cost.
  - throwawaaarrgh 4y ago
    An ICE car doesn't "need" more than one gear either, but it would be extremely inefficient with just 1. More gears means lower torque and power required at sustained load and speed. Hence why most EV truck transmissions (light, medium and heavy duty) have more than one gear.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    EVs don't have engines. They have motors.

bombcar 4y ago

Even those can likely be replaced with hybrids, after all a locomotive pulls a lot more (900,000 tons of steel according to the poet, but I think he's off a bit) and you can't build a transmission for that.

nimbius 4y ago
i think youre right and i think the market will adjust, but the current application is just trying to take what works on local and regional beer haulers and ups vans and scale it up. very myopic and leads to a lot of frustration when logistics companies realize their drivers arent qualified to leave the state with bigger loads because they never learned stick
- Clent 4y ago
  I think this is why is would take off in trunks; probably anything that hauls. As the article states in the article, there is no engine to stall. This is more like vehicles with D, D1, D2. It's optional efficiency. For an electric vehicle, switching between them doesn't stall the vehicle, but it could be used to increase distance between charges.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    According to a random internet search, the average "semi truck" age is 11 years. So even if all brand-new trucks starting TODAY were fully electric with an electric/nonshifting drivetrain, it'd take 11-22 years to "clear out" the existing.
    - Symbiote 4y ago
      For a large country that's true, but regulations could adjust that. If you want to drive a truck into a city in Scandinavia or Germany, there's a good chance it needs to be newer. For example, to drive into Copenhagen a truck or bus must be from 2015 or later, or there's a €1700 fine. (https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/ https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/ has a list/map.) If you have a truck that's too old, you might have use for it elsewhere in Denmark, or you could sell it to someone who will drive it somewhere without these regulations and sell it there (i.e. eastern, southeastern Europe, Turkey, north Africa). There's a diagram that would be excellent if it weren't fuzzy on page 5 (Figure 2) demonstrating this nicely. It's not at all unusual to see a truck in Romania or Bulgaria which has the shadow of some German company logo/name on it, where the logos have been removed. https://www.acea.auto/figure/average-age-of-eu-vehicle-fleet-by-country/ https://www.acea.auto/figure/average-age-of-eu-vehicle-fleet... (Are there any similar rules in North America? I can see restrictions on new vehicles sold in California, but nothing on what you can drive in.)
Animats 4y ago
Well, you can, but the history of locomotives with gearshifts is not a happy one. British Rail in the 1950s had a Diesel road locomotive (not just a railcar) with a manual transmission. The shifting was powered, but not automatic. Hitachi has built some switching locomotives with geared transmissions and a really big 12-plate clutch. But no, you don't want to do that.
- nomel 4y ago
  > really big 12-plate clutch Here's a video showing a multi-plate clutch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcYsV063lk8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcYsV063lk8 Only being familiar with simple car transmissions, wow! That's a lot of friction. Key concept seems to be, for some pressure force, you get N times the friction force.
  - Animats 4y ago
    Yes. For locomotives, the big problem is 0 to 0.1mph time. It's like 13 speed tractor-trailer transmissions, only worse. The fun version of this.[1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-1EZ6K7bpQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-1EZ6K7bpQ

throwawaaarrgh 4y ago

EV heavy duty trucks transmissions are 2-4 gears due to the high torque band. ICE vehicle engines must maintain a minimum idle speed and so a torque converter has to be used to match speed. But EV engines can run just fine at 1 RPM, so the vehicle can easily start from a dead stop in first gear automatically. Just put it in gear and press the accelerator.

ilyt 4y ago
EV doesn't need "gear" in the first place, engine can be directly connected at all times. There are some EVs that have 2 speed gear box to get max of the performance out of the engine but that's almost exclusively for performance vehicles.
- fomine3 4y ago
  EV heavy duty trucks are also high performance vehicle.
- hot_gril 4y ago
  Single-gear EVs are significantly less efficient at freeway speeds. They can benefit from a second gear, but it seems this isn't considered worth the extra cost.
- throwawaaarrgh 4y ago
  An ICE car doesn't "need" more than one gear either, but it would be extremely inefficient with just 1. More gears means lower torque and power required at sustained load and speed. Hence why most EV truck transmissions (light, medium and heavy duty) have more than one gear.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  EVs don't have engines. They have motors.