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I have always seemed to get better mileage out of a stick than a CV or automatic and definitely performance that matches my desires, like engine braking on a do
by quantified 4y ago
I have always seemed to get better mileage out of a stick than a CV or automatic and definitely performance that matches my desires, like engine braking on a downhill. But it really only pertains to a combustion engine. A stick on a EV seems like a rotary dial on my smart phone.
- b112 4y agoBut was the rotary ever fun to use?
- dottedmag 4y agoIt definitely was.
- b112 4y agoTry saying that when using it in real life, making many calls daily, with an exchange such as 908-. Then, the tone dialer appears. I was not interested in interacting with my telephone. I just wanted it to place calls.
- dottedmag 4y agoThe question was about FUN, not about making many calls daily.
- b112 4y agoWhat a strange response. The point is, repetitive usage shows the difference between fun, or just novel. A rotary phone could be novel. Yet it became tedious with common use, especially when compared to tone dialing.
- HideousKojima 4y agoMy grandparents had a rotary phone and I always thought it was fun/neat to play around with (they'd unplug it first, obviously). I was about 8 years old when they got rid of it so no idea if it's still "fun" to an adult.
- b112 4y agoI can very much see it as fun, when it is unusual. It isn't fun as a daily driver.
- toast0 4y agoI've had a rotary phone for about 5 years, but always a voip line and most ATAs don't handle pulse dialing well (some of mine say they can, but it doesn't work with my particular phone anyway), but I recently setup a real POTS line and it works there. It's kind of fun, but mandatory 1+ ten digit dialing makes it a lot more tedious. Even if you were somewhere without ten digit dialing, there's a lot more cross area code dialing these days.
- quantified 4y agoWhen 1-800- numbers were introduced, they were tedious to dial. You could see why NYC was 212, Chicago 312, LA 213, and so on. Yes, I was around for all that. I envied the houses with touch-tone.
- Symbiote 4y agoThat's interesting. I'd assumed the USA would use the letters on the phone dial, since those are still used in advertising today but have fallen out of use in many other countries. In Britain, the area codes were originally allocated based on the letter corresponding to the number, except for London. 01_ London 021 Birmingham (B=2) 031 Edinburgh (E=3) 041 Glasgow (G=4) 051 Liverpool (L=5) 061 Manchester (M=6) with other cities taking two-letter codes: 0532 Leeds (LE = 53) 0742 Sheffield (SH = 74) ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_telephone_numbers_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_telephone_numbers_i... (impressively long article)
- toast0 4y agoUS area codes are a fixed three digits and initially had a rule that states which fit in a single area code would be X0Y, and those with multiple would be X1Y. When the area codes were made, AT&T already had usage data from operator connected long distance calling, so they chose the numbers to minimize dialing time. Within area codes, the first three digits indicate the telephone exchange, those used to be named based on the first two digits ex 555 KLondike-5 or 736 PEnnsylvania 6 [1]; these exchange names historically tended to have geographic meaning on a local level, but that wasn't always practical and when customer dialing happened, exchange names mostly disappeared, only to be heard from in older media. [1] you might know of this one from the Glenn Miller song, PEnnsylvania 6-5000, which was the number of a the Hotel Pennsylvania in New York; it's exchange was named for PEnn station, the area the exchange serves
- Kaibeezy 4y agoRX-7, RX-8... oh, wait
- fomine3 4y agoIt was great for scrolling.
- chinabot 4y agoIts basically petrol heads who prefer manual transmissions, I doubt any of them have economy in mind, I have a manual transmission on my hilux EV conversion unless I'm going uphill or have a big load it stays in 3rd from start to finish
- ehnto 4y agoYep. I love my manual 90s Skyline, but I am really hoping to get a pragmatic commuter EV after driving a couple. I will not miss the gearbox for that task. I also think EVs tick a couple of boxes that manual gearboxes also do for enthusiasts, which slushbox autos didn't. Always being in a good powerband and engine braking are both features of EVs and manual gearbox ICE cars that I miss if I am in an auto ICE car.
- gmtx725 4y agoIn the UK manuals are still significantly cheaper, so the bottom end of the market prefers them as well as the petrol heads
- Symbiote 4y agoIt's not really a preference if it's only what you can afford. People who only buy second-hand cars will naturally end up with whatever was new 5 years ago, which will gradually include more automatic ICE cars, hybrids and EVs.
- gmtx725 4y agonot 100% disputing what you're saying and im sure more automatics/EVs etc will gradually filter in. BUT it's not just an affordability thing lots of people just prefer cheaper cars and would prefer to put their disposable income elsewhere.
- Symbiote 4y agoPreferring to put your disposable income elsewhere sounds exactly like an affordability thing. If I have £15,000 in the bank, spending £8,000 on the manual vs. £9,500 on the automatic (Renault Clio, 5 years, both on motors.co.uk) is significant. I'd choose the cheaper car. If I have £50,000 in the bank it's much easier to justify. (And if I have only £8,000 or less I don't have a choice, but I might tell my friends I "prefer" not to put a lot of money in the car.)
- idiotsecant 4y agoThere is absolutely a good reason for transmissions in an electric vehicle, it's just that most EVs elect to remove them for simplicity instead. I will leave the interpretation of this graph as an exercise for the reader. https://i.stack.imgur.com/HRUva.gif https://i.stack.imgur.com/HRUva.gif
- hinkley 4y agoI predict we'll end up with AWD vehicles with two motors. The front wheels will have a motor tuned for the low end, the rear wheels a motor that is tuned for higher speeds, and the controllers will adjust how much power goes front or rear depending on the need for torque, traction and mph. Right now AWD EVs seem to get slightly lower range, and I would expect that to eventually to even out or reverse, even with the weight of extra equipment.
- sib 4y agoSome (not all) non-performance AWD Teslas do exactly this. As early as 2014, when they intro'd the S 85D, the front and rear motors were set up so one would be more used at low speeds, for better acceleration, and one at high speeds, for more efficient cruising.
- kwhitefoot 4y agoThis is how my Model S 70D is setup. The front motor is a somewhat smaller than the rear.
- ilyt 4y agoMost EVs don't use permanent magnet motors. Try again. The curve you linked is seriously misleading. Like just look at any EV dyno curve, it is not "torque starts at top and immediately starts falling" Transmission means extra losses and extra weight tho. It's not just "free" increase in efficiency. It does make sense but in typical city/reasonable highway speed it's just not worth it
- idiotsecant 4y ago
- etaioinshrdlu 4y agoManual transmissions are more efficient than automatic because there is more energy lost to unproductive sloshing in the torque converter in the automatic, whereas the manual has a clutch that makes a near-lossless linkage. Nowadays, I'm sure we could software-automate a mechanically manual transmission to have the same driver experience as an automatic...
- ComputerGuru 4y agoIt’s already a thing, but was widely derided by both manual and automatic proponents (for different reasons): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_manual_transmission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_manual_transmission
- hot_gril 4y agoI have one of those in my '06 Maserati. It's a pain in the ass in some ways, but it's still more fun than automatic.
- loeg 4y ago> Nowadays, I'm sure we could software-automate a mechanically manual transmission to have the same driver experience as an automatic... Paddle-shifters and CVTs, right?
- Klonoar 4y agoThis was true decades ago when the dominant automatic transmission was torque-converter junk. This hasn't been the case for some time now, though. The modern automatic transmission (e.g, Porsche's PDK, or any the DCTs, or even the ZF8) will win every time. Driving a manual is pretty much only for feel or technique at this point, there's no real argument otherwise.
- WalterBright 4y agoCan you clutch start a modern auto? I've clutch started a manual more often than I can count.
- WirelessGigabit 4y agoThat really depends on the brand of car / transmission. Modern cars with the ZF-8 (which is like the number 1 automatic sold currently) are more efficient than their manual counterparts. Extremely recent example in the USA: https://www.toyota.com/grsupra/2023/features/mpg/2385/2374 https://www.toyota.com/grsupra/2023/features/mpg/2385/2374 Toyota 3.0 Premium MT (6-speed Manual): 19/27/21 Toyota 3.0 Premium AT (8-speed Automatic): 23/31/26 And if you're like: Oh, the EPA's measurement sucks, here's the WLTP counterpart: 3.0 Petrol Twin-scroll turbocharger (335 BHP), 6-speed Manual: 32mpg / 198 g/km CO2 3.0 Petrol Twin-scroll turbocharger (335 BHP), 8-speed Automatic: 34.8mpg / 183 g/km CO2 Automatic has better mpg and less CO2 per distance travelled.
- hnav 4y agosome of that (the highway rating especially) is gearing, the final drive is shorter and the 6th gear in the ZF manual is not nearly as tall as the 8th in the 8HP. This is a common issue in auto vs manual MPG comparisons these days
- quantified 4y agoWell, I should test drive each. EPA standard and reality don't match. For my stick shift cars, I always beat the EPA mileage.
- masklinn 4y agoYes? EPA is a standardised regime so cars can be compared. You can drive better than the EPA (or WLTP) test, especially if you're in better conditions.
- eMSF 4y agoFrom what I have seen, VAG DCT models tend to be invariably less efficient than their MT counterparts (and I don't know why ZF-8 would be more efficient than a DCT).
- spike021 4y agoI do wonder how much of this depends on the driving style, though. In a manual I think you're much more likely to rev out the engine more, shift higher in the rev range, etc. In an automatic unless you're in full "manual" mode and using the paddles/shifter to emulate that same style, then you're more likely to have the automatic's efficiency.
- fooker 4y agoThis idea is outdated by about ~5-8 years. You’re unlikely to match the efficiency of a CVT with a 5 or 6 speed manual.