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I'm retired and I'd be looking for options like Canada's voluntary euthanasia program if I didn't have my adult children. It's surprising to me how meaningless

I'm retired and I'd be looking for options like Canada's voluntary euthanasia program if I didn't have my adult children. It's surprising to me how meaningless money has become now that I am old and lacking the energy to enjoy it. I'm grateful I still have something to live for.

yamtaddle 4y ago
Right, the in-hindsight value may make it worth it, but when you're 25 or 30 or 35 and start to run the numbers on the terrible shadow having a kid will cast on your future savings and then realize opportunity cost makes it even worse... it can be hard to see that less-quantifiable perspective clearly. (for the record, I have some kids, but damn can I ever understand why people choose not to, even when they do want them)
- labrador 4y ago
  > start to run the numbers The problem is at a young age you don't know the important things to include in your formulas or how to value them. What's it going to cost to pay someone to make decisions for you when you start having trouble making them for yourself? It's going to cost a lot to set that up with someone trustworthy ahead of time. If you've done a halfway decent job of raising your kids they will do that for free and you don't even have to set it up. They will be watching you and making sure you are ok. They will do it because they love you, not because you are paying them.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Absolutely—again, I have kids, so I decided it was worth it. The benefits can be incalculably great, but the costs are a lot easier to see and are very discouraging, and that situation is quite a bit worse than it used to be, for people in the same ballpark as median household income (we don't make FAANG money but are doing quite a bit better than US median, or... well, I really dunno if we'd have kids, otherwise).
  - hasbot 4y ago
    Reading this and your earlier comments, it appears you had kids in order to have someone take care of you in your old age?! You seem to have great expectations for your kids. Hopefully they are OK with that.
    - random314 4y ago
      In some sense, either your kids take care of you OR other people's kids take care of you when you are too old to physically support yourself. Outside of euthanasia when you become physically infirm, there is no other way to live through old age.
    - labrador 4y ago
      That's a silly accusation because like almost all young people I didn't think about my old age at all. Why think about something so unpleasant when it's long, long way off. I'm speaking of Americans as an American. I understand in other cultures it's something they think about, but America is a youth culture that doesn't teach long term thinking. If my kids don't want to help me that's their right and I'd make other plans while asking God why I did to deserve such ungrateful kids.
    - galdosdi 4y ago
      Maybe in the USA in 2022 this is weird, but in many cultures, taking care of your parents after they took care of you is just normal, commonplace, expected, assumed. Like, the natural circle of life.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      If they’re not okay with than you failed as a parent or your broader culture has failed. Taking care of the elderly is part of your role as a human.
toomuchtodo 4y ago
Kids have no obligation to provide elder care though, and estrangement rates are material. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/05/20/how-many-american-children-have-cut-contact-with-their-parents https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/05/20/how-many-...
- labrador 4y ago
  Right. There are no guarantees when calculating the cost benefits of having kids. The biggest risk in having kids is not financial in my opinion. The biggest risk is that they will bring you an enormous amount of suffering, say by becoming drug addicts and committing suicide. I took the risk and it paid off for me. All I'm offering here is a counter argument.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    As a parent, I agree. I will also say it’s the hardest job I’ve ever had, and I would not recommend it to others if a future caregiver is what they’re hoping to get out of it.
- webmobdev 4y ago
  Apparently some US states do have filial laws - https://www.thedailybeast.com/are-you-legally-responsible-for-your-elderly-parents https://www.thedailybeast.com/are-you-legally-responsible-fo... ... In India, kids do have a legal obligation to care for parents - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maintenance_and_Welfare_of_Parents_and_Senior_Citizens_Act,_2007 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maintenance_and_Welfare_of_P... ...
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maximus-decimus 4y ago
Or maybe you would have something else giving meaning to your life if you had invested the same amount of time you spent on your kids on a hobby or personal projects instead.

yamtaddle 4y ago

Right, the in-hindsight value may make it worth it, but when you're 25 or 30 or 35 and start to run the numbers on the terrible shadow having a kid will cast on your future savings and then realize opportunity cost makes it even worse... it can be hard to see that less-quantifiable perspective clearly. (for the record, I have some kids, but damn can I ever understand why people choose not to, even when they do want them)

labrador 4y ago
> start to run the numbers The problem is at a young age you don't know the important things to include in your formulas or how to value them. What's it going to cost to pay someone to make decisions for you when you start having trouble making them for yourself? It's going to cost a lot to set that up with someone trustworthy ahead of time. If you've done a halfway decent job of raising your kids they will do that for free and you don't even have to set it up. They will be watching you and making sure you are ok. They will do it because they love you, not because you are paying them.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Absolutely—again, I have kids, so I decided it was worth it. The benefits can be incalculably great, but the costs are a lot easier to see and are very discouraging, and that situation is quite a bit worse than it used to be, for people in the same ballpark as median household income (we don't make FAANG money but are doing quite a bit better than US median, or... well, I really dunno if we'd have kids, otherwise).
- hasbot 4y ago
  Reading this and your earlier comments, it appears you had kids in order to have someone take care of you in your old age?! You seem to have great expectations for your kids. Hopefully they are OK with that.
  - random314 4y ago
    In some sense, either your kids take care of you OR other people's kids take care of you when you are too old to physically support yourself. Outside of euthanasia when you become physically infirm, there is no other way to live through old age.
  - labrador 4y ago
    That's a silly accusation because like almost all young people I didn't think about my old age at all. Why think about something so unpleasant when it's long, long way off. I'm speaking of Americans as an American. I understand in other cultures it's something they think about, but America is a youth culture that doesn't teach long term thinking. If my kids don't want to help me that's their right and I'd make other plans while asking God why I did to deserve such ungrateful kids.
  - galdosdi 4y ago
    Maybe in the USA in 2022 this is weird, but in many cultures, taking care of your parents after they took care of you is just normal, commonplace, expected, assumed. Like, the natural circle of life.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    If they’re not okay with than you failed as a parent or your broader culture has failed. Taking care of the elderly is part of your role as a human.

toomuchtodo 4y ago

Kids have no obligation to provide elder care though, and estrangement rates are material. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/05/20/how-many-american-children-have-cut-contact-with-their-parents https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/05/20/how-many-...

labrador 4y ago
Right. There are no guarantees when calculating the cost benefits of having kids. The biggest risk in having kids is not financial in my opinion. The biggest risk is that they will bring you an enormous amount of suffering, say by becoming drug addicts and committing suicide. I took the risk and it paid off for me. All I'm offering here is a counter argument.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  As a parent, I agree. I will also say it’s the hardest job I’ve ever had, and I would not recommend it to others if a future caregiver is what they’re hoping to get out of it.
webmobdev 4y ago
Apparently some US states do have filial laws - https://www.thedailybeast.com/are-you-legally-responsible-for-your-elderly-parents https://www.thedailybeast.com/are-you-legally-responsible-fo... ... In India, kids do have a legal obligation to care for parents - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maintenance_and_Welfare_of_Parents_and_Senior_Citizens_Act,_2007 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maintenance_and_Welfare_of_P... ...
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maximus-decimus 4y ago

Or maybe you would have something else giving meaning to your life if you had invested the same amount of time you spent on your kids on a hobby or personal projects instead.