4 ms·

Haskell for web? That's very impressive if you can get it to work at scale. This is the hardest language I have ever personally tried to learn.

by _8j50 4y ago

kobalsky 4y ago
monads still keep me awake at night
- epgui 4y ago
  Monads are only complicated if you have to unlearn stuff. You've probably written a ton of monads by accident, regardless of what language you use.
  - kobalsky 4y ago
    exactly, I finally got them when looking at examples in other languages. I never could shake the interest off because I caught a glimpse of god when trying haskell. The language didn't stick on me but I always miss haskell monads.
  - naasking 4y ago
    List comprehensions in multiple languages, LINQ in .NET, all monads.
    - tempodox 4y ago
      And all the Computation Expressions in .NET (including the ones you build yourself) are monads.
- aka_dude 4y ago
  Because you can't stop thinking how great are they, right? Same
- barbarbar 4y ago
  At first I thought you meant Monad Lisa. I will show myself out.
  - hestefisk 4y ago
    Hehe
kccqzy 4y ago
Of course you can. As early as 2012, Michael Snoyman has written a book about it, Developing Web Applications with Haskell and Yesod. Yesod is an old web framework by now, but it's not even the oldest. Happstack is even older than that.
- dfee 4y ago
  Do you write web applications in Haskell? It’s not clear where the community is, and that’s troublesome because for those not well oriented with Haskell, the adventure is solitary. MS seems to be doing a bit of Rust these days, so I kind of wonder if the spiritual successor is another, albeit less hardcore, language. For me, it’s been difficult because I don’t know where the false starts are, and don’t have the unlimited time I once had to wallow and grow without any community support. Other languages are just more approachable, but something eats at me that Haskell is worth it.
  - lgas 4y ago
    Not the person that you're responding to, but I write web applications in Haskell. Previously with Servant and these days mostly with scotty. Happy to try to answer any questions you have here, but there are great communities of helpful people on Reddit (r/haskell and r/haskellquestions) and the FP Slack as well. There's no need to go at it alone. And you're right, Haskell is definitely worth it.
    - _huayra_ 4y ago
      Not PP, but how often do you find yourself tracking down lazy-evaluation / GC-related performance issues? I've heard some horror stories and I honestly don't have the mental model yet to track these things down. Even learning Rust, it still has the same "stack + heap + eager eval" sort of thing as C++. I'm not sure how much of this is done in practice, or if the folks who've had it happen to them are just prolific at internet complaints.
      - lgas 4y ago
MarkMarine 4y ago
Have you tried C? I’m not being snarky, remembering all the undefined behavior is a task in itself. I’m a Haskell neophyte, but I often find myself reaching for things haskell has in the box when I’m writing something in another language. To me, it’s like the people who describe a cat as “just like a dog” as a positive trait for the cat. Why deal with the “just like” version if you can have the real thing? Just get a dog. So I find myself reaching for these tools and then I try to just go to the real thing. Unfortunately I can’t run Haskell on an ESP32 :) Btw, this is not to denigrate cats, they are great in their own right. Not for me, I’m violently allergic and somewhat particular to having the things I ensure exist be thankful, but I respect everyone’s choices in the fluffy friend department.
- antonvs 4y ago
  > somewhat particular to having the things I ensure exist be thankful Sounds like a certain deity

Haskell for web? That's very impressive if you can get it to work at scale. This is the hardest language I have ever personally tried to learn.

by _8j50 4y ago

Haskell for web? That's very impressive if you can get it to work at scale. This is the hardest language I have ever personally tried to learn.

kobalsky 4y ago

monads still keep me awake at night

epgui 4y ago
Monads are only complicated if you have to unlearn stuff. You've probably written a ton of monads by accident, regardless of what language you use.
- kobalsky 4y ago
  exactly, I finally got them when looking at examples in other languages. I never could shake the interest off because I caught a glimpse of god when trying haskell. The language didn't stick on me but I always miss haskell monads.
- naasking 4y ago
  List comprehensions in multiple languages, LINQ in .NET, all monads.
  - tempodox 4y ago
    And all the Computation Expressions in .NET (including the ones you build yourself) are monads.
aka_dude 4y ago
Because you can't stop thinking how great are they, right? Same
barbarbar 4y ago
At first I thought you meant Monad Lisa. I will show myself out.
- hestefisk 4y ago
  Hehe

kccqzy 4y ago

Of course you can. As early as 2012, Michael Snoyman has written a book about it, Developing Web Applications with Haskell and Yesod. Yesod is an old web framework by now, but it's not even the oldest. Happstack is even older than that.

dfee 4y ago
Do you write web applications in Haskell? It’s not clear where the community is, and that’s troublesome because for those not well oriented with Haskell, the adventure is solitary. MS seems to be doing a bit of Rust these days, so I kind of wonder if the spiritual successor is another, albeit less hardcore, language. For me, it’s been difficult because I don’t know where the false starts are, and don’t have the unlimited time I once had to wallow and grow without any community support. Other languages are just more approachable, but something eats at me that Haskell is worth it.
- lgas 4y ago
  Not the person that you're responding to, but I write web applications in Haskell. Previously with Servant and these days mostly with scotty. Happy to try to answer any questions you have here, but there are great communities of helpful people on Reddit (r/haskell and r/haskellquestions) and the FP Slack as well. There's no need to go at it alone. And you're right, Haskell is definitely worth it.
  - _huayra_ 4y ago
    Not PP, but how often do you find yourself tracking down lazy-evaluation / GC-related performance issues? I've heard some horror stories and I honestly don't have the mental model yet to track these things down. Even learning Rust, it still has the same "stack + heap + eager eval" sort of thing as C++. I'm not sure how much of this is done in practice, or if the folks who've had it happen to them are just prolific at internet complaints.
    - lgas 4y ago

MarkMarine 4y ago

Have you tried C? I’m not being snarky, remembering all the undefined behavior is a task in itself. I’m a Haskell neophyte, but I often find myself reaching for things haskell has in the box when I’m writing something in another language. To me, it’s like the people who describe a cat as “just like a dog” as a positive trait for the cat. Why deal with the “just like” version if you can have the real thing? Just get a dog. So I find myself reaching for these tools and then I try to just go to the real thing. Unfortunately I can’t run Haskell on an ESP32 :) Btw, this is not to denigrate cats, they are great in their own right. Not for me, I’m violently allergic and somewhat particular to having the things I ensure exist be thankful, but I respect everyone’s choices in the fluffy friend department.

antonvs 4y ago
> somewhat particular to having the things I ensure exist be thankful Sounds like a certain deity