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I don't think this is true. Apple provides a fairly substantial standard library along with the open source version of Swift, which they never did for Objective

I don't think this is true. Apple provides a fairly substantial standard library along with the open source version of Swift, which they never did for Objective-C.

pjmlp 4y ago
We have very different point of views what fairly substantial means, specially in absence of any Apple ecosystem key framework and XCode tooling.
- ofrzeta 4y ago
  Open Source Swift will never become a language for graphical applications. Same problem as with Objective-C as you said. There's GNUstep but look how far they have come in decades. On the other hand a bunch of useful libs (based on said standard lib) for server-side Swift is realistic.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Server side Swift lags behind the competition and only makes sense for Apple shops to write their apps backends.
    - bsaul 4y ago
      Even for apple shops, it doesn’t really makes sense. It is a myth to think that you can share anything of value between client and servers, except dumb data types that you’ll probably want to define in protobuf anyway for various reasons. As for knowing the language, you’d gain the two weeks it takes to learn go, but you’ll loose all the ecosystem of quality libraries.
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        Apparently a myth made reality on the Apple shops I know. It is no different from the Android shops using Java and Kotlin for the backend, the only difference being the plethora of options on the JVM ecosystem that they can reach out outside Android.
        bsaul 4y ago
        I'm really curious to know what code they actually managed to share between client and server. I've been doing fullstack mobile / server dev for 12 years now and i've never ever told myself "what a waste, if only i could reuse this piece of code on/from the server".
        ofrzeta 4y ago
        Different ecosystem but we share Typescript type definitions between frontend and backend. That's not so bad.
        pjmlp 4y ago
        Data models, validation code, business logic that needs to be done on both sides, dynamic UIs. And about protobufs, I am yet to see any production deployment using it.
        ithkuil 4y ago
        > I am yet to see any production deployment using it. We all live in bubbles. I've seen it, a lot; that's not proof that everybody does it. And the converse is true as well.

I don't think this is true. Apple provides a fairly substantial standard library along with the open source version of Swift, which they never did for Objective-C.

pjmlp 4y ago

We have very different point of views what fairly substantial means, specially in absence of any Apple ecosystem key framework and XCode tooling.

ofrzeta 4y ago
Open Source Swift will never become a language for graphical applications. Same problem as with Objective-C as you said. There's GNUstep but look how far they have come in decades. On the other hand a bunch of useful libs (based on said standard lib) for server-side Swift is realistic.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Server side Swift lags behind the competition and only makes sense for Apple shops to write their apps backends.
  - bsaul 4y ago
    Even for apple shops, it doesn’t really makes sense. It is a myth to think that you can share anything of value between client and servers, except dumb data types that you’ll probably want to define in protobuf anyway for various reasons. As for knowing the language, you’d gain the two weeks it takes to learn go, but you’ll loose all the ecosystem of quality libraries.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      Apparently a myth made reality on the Apple shops I know. It is no different from the Android shops using Java and Kotlin for the backend, the only difference being the plethora of options on the JVM ecosystem that they can reach out outside Android.
      - bsaul 4y ago
        I'm really curious to know what code they actually managed to share between client and server. I've been doing fullstack mobile / server dev for 12 years now and i've never ever told myself "what a waste, if only i could reuse this piece of code on/from the server".
        ofrzeta 4y ago
        Different ecosystem but we share Typescript type definitions between frontend and backend. That's not so bad.
        pjmlp 4y ago
        Data models, validation code, business logic that needs to be done on both sides, dynamic UIs. And about protobufs, I am yet to see any production deployment using it.
        ithkuil 4y ago
        > I am yet to see any production deployment using it. We all live in bubbles. I've seen it, a lot; that's not proof that everybody does it. And the converse is true as well.