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"Rationality and reason seems to have shifted from liberals to conservatives. We can't even say biological facts. Many others are leaving the woke non-sense,"

"Rationality and reason seems to have shifted from liberals to conservatives. We can't even say biological facts. Many others are leaving the woke non-sense," Isn't it the Republicans that are still saying homosexuality is a choice? Aren't they the ones aligned with QAnon woke-conspiracies? Aren't they ones that pushed that Obama was born in Africa? What biological facts do Democrats say you can't say? At worst, Dems maybe bend over too much to be inclusive to those that historically haven't been included.

zucked 4y ago
At this risk of sounding like a "BUT BOTH SIDES" argument - both sides of the major two parties have elements of undesirability. I register as an independent. I vote for representatives that I feel best convey my hope, dreams, and views into the halls of power. Often, those candidates self-identify as liberals. Sometimes, they identify as Republican. Either way, the faster we can get away from having politics be a team sport and have people think for themselves, the better off we'll all be. I'll just hold my breath for that moment. <dies>
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
systemvoltage 4y ago
I know how crooked some of the Republicans are and some of the conspiracy shit that's going around. But, it's not like Democrats are clean, this is what is cooking in the progressive circles, especially in colleges and academia: https://twitter.com/LPofDelaware/status/1583078489430798336 https://twitter.com/LPofDelaware/status/1583078489430798336 What would be helpful is if you try to, with good faith, head over to r/conservatives and see what the discussion is like. They will welcome progressives and disagreeing views. They'll upvote you. The same cannot be said about the reverse. Conservative opinions here are completely unwelcome, not even downvoted but flagged. Turn on the show-flagged filter on HN and I'd wager atleast half of them are totally legit, not rude and not bigoted. They're just offering a different perspective. Both sides are equally consumed and spineless. Republicans caved into Trumpism and the liberals caved into woke ideology. Both sides instead of rejecting extremism, adopted it and dug their heels in. We lost truth and rationality in the process. At this time in history, centrist republicans are the most rational. and...instantly downvoted. Care to please comment below? What do you disagree with what I just said here?
- kenjackson 4y ago
  First, I didn't downvote you (actually I can't). I think that there are fringe elements on both sides. I do think there is a legit difference though in that the mass of the conservatives hold views that are to me far worse. For example, there might be a fringe of liberals that think that women and men are the same height on average -- or think there are no physical differences. But the VAST majority believe there are differences. But I think a far higher percentage of conservatives think that homosexuality is a choice. That's a very mainstream belief I've seen -- even in my own family. I think what liberals struggle with, IMO, aligns with my values, even if the positions that arise I disagree with. For example, trans athletes. I think its unfair to women to compete against people who were born men. At the same time, I sympathize with people who really feel like they were born the wrong gender and are doing everything they can to change genders. I don't have a satisfactory solution, but I empathize with the liberal response. The conservative response doesn't even seem to recognize that trans people have any struggle at all. Centrist Republicans today might be the most rational. But they are even getting run out of the party. I never thought I'd say, "Wow, I miss George Bush".
  - tently 4y ago
    > For example, trans athletes. I think its unfair to women to compete against people who were born men. At the same time, I sympathize with people who really feel like they were born the wrong gender and are doing everything they can to change genders. I don't have a satisfactory solution, but I empathize with the liberal response. The conservative response doesn't even seem to recognize that trans people have any struggle at all. There is a more balanced take than the standard conservative and liberal positions: the left-wing feminist response. With this, trans-identifying people are supported with regards to universal rights, i.e. ones that everyone should have, according to left-wing viewpoints. For example, it should not be permitted for someone to be fired from their job for revealing their transness (or for being otherwise gender non-conforming). Same for access to housing, health care, and other public services, no prejudice must be imposed. However, they should not be treated as if the opposite sex in law and policy. This is particularly important in areas where we have sex segregation for a good reason. You mentioned athletes, another example is the safeguarding of women in prisons - women's prisons should be female-only, and no males should be incarcerated there, no matter how they identify. This overall approach helps to protect gender non-conforming people (including trans-identifying), while maintaining sex-based rights, particularly those that protect women.

zucked 4y ago

At this risk of sounding like a "BUT BOTH SIDES" argument - both sides of the major two parties have elements of undesirability. I register as an independent. I vote for representatives that I feel best convey my hope, dreams, and views into the halls of power. Often, those candidates self-identify as liberals. Sometimes, they identify as Republican. Either way, the faster we can get away from having politics be a team sport and have people think for themselves, the better off we'll all be. I'll just hold my breath for that moment. <dies>

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

systemvoltage 4y ago

I know how crooked some of the Republicans are and some of the conspiracy shit that's going around. But, it's not like Democrats are clean, this is what is cooking in the progressive circles, especially in colleges and academia: https://twitter.com/LPofDelaware/status/1583078489430798336 https://twitter.com/LPofDelaware/status/1583078489430798336 What would be helpful is if you try to, with good faith, head over to r/conservatives and see what the discussion is like. They will welcome progressives and disagreeing views. They'll upvote you. The same cannot be said about the reverse. Conservative opinions here are completely unwelcome, not even downvoted but flagged. Turn on the show-flagged filter on HN and I'd wager atleast half of them are totally legit, not rude and not bigoted. They're just offering a different perspective. Both sides are equally consumed and spineless. Republicans caved into Trumpism and the liberals caved into woke ideology. Both sides instead of rejecting extremism, adopted it and dug their heels in. We lost truth and rationality in the process. At this time in history, centrist republicans are the most rational. and...instantly downvoted. Care to please comment below? What do you disagree with what I just said here?

kenjackson 4y ago
First, I didn't downvote you (actually I can't). I think that there are fringe elements on both sides. I do think there is a legit difference though in that the mass of the conservatives hold views that are to me far worse. For example, there might be a fringe of liberals that think that women and men are the same height on average -- or think there are no physical differences. But the VAST majority believe there are differences. But I think a far higher percentage of conservatives think that homosexuality is a choice. That's a very mainstream belief I've seen -- even in my own family. I think what liberals struggle with, IMO, aligns with my values, even if the positions that arise I disagree with. For example, trans athletes. I think its unfair to women to compete against people who were born men. At the same time, I sympathize with people who really feel like they were born the wrong gender and are doing everything they can to change genders. I don't have a satisfactory solution, but I empathize with the liberal response. The conservative response doesn't even seem to recognize that trans people have any struggle at all. Centrist Republicans today might be the most rational. But they are even getting run out of the party. I never thought I'd say, "Wow, I miss George Bush".
- tently 4y ago
  > For example, trans athletes. I think its unfair to women to compete against people who were born men. At the same time, I sympathize with people who really feel like they were born the wrong gender and are doing everything they can to change genders. I don't have a satisfactory solution, but I empathize with the liberal response. The conservative response doesn't even seem to recognize that trans people have any struggle at all. There is a more balanced take than the standard conservative and liberal positions: the left-wing feminist response. With this, trans-identifying people are supported with regards to universal rights, i.e. ones that everyone should have, according to left-wing viewpoints. For example, it should not be permitted for someone to be fired from their job for revealing their transness (or for being otherwise gender non-conforming). Same for access to housing, health care, and other public services, no prejudice must be imposed. However, they should not be treated as if the opposite sex in law and policy. This is particularly important in areas where we have sex segregation for a good reason. You mentioned athletes, another example is the safeguarding of women in prisons - women's prisons should be female-only, and no males should be incarcerated there, no matter how they identify. This overall approach helps to protect gender non-conforming people (including trans-identifying), while maintaining sex-based rights, particularly those that protect women.