4 ms·

I am worried that 1, 2 and 3 is already being used by the western governments to do the exact same thing against it's own population. The FBI is just jealous th

I am worried that 1, 2 and 3 is already being used by the western governments to do the exact same thing against it's own population. The FBI is just jealous they didn't have the boot on Tiktok like they do with all other kinds of social media and websites.

SkyMarshal 4y ago
I'm aware of that too, it's a problem, but the lesser one imho. At least there's some modicum of accountability with Western companies subject to Western laws, which Western citizens have some say in (if they get agitated enough at least), thus some possibility for reigning them in. There's much less or none with with Chinese companies operating in the West, and sending all the data they collect back to servers in China, under CCP "law".
- rosmax_1337 4y ago
  I don't live in the US, I have no clear way at all to change how US government agencies deal with data gathered from citizens of my country. I can't even vote there, not that "voting blue/red" would change this mess at all. It can't be more than a week ago that we discussed here on HN a way that MS Powerpoint can leak your entire presentation to microsoft. Lots of people in my country use the entire MS suite, and I don't think the CIA/FBI/ABCDEFG should have our data.
  - SkyMarshal 4y ago
    It's not impossible for other countries to affect US internet companies. The EU GDPR is probably the best example. Once that went into effect, every website began showing popups enabling users to control cookie settings for that website, even within the US to US citizens not subject to GDPR. If there's a country or block of countries with large enough population relative to US, and where US companies operate, it can have some influence on US. That said, yes if you use FB/etc you should assume your data could be used by US intel agencies for similar purposes. Just don't use those apps. Heck, I'm American and refuse to Facebook or any of their other services (Insta, Whatsapp, Meta). None of this stuff is actually necessary to live a happy healthy life, and often even detracts from it.
    - unity1001 4y ago
      > The EU GDPR is probably the best example And that's precisely why there is a trade war in between the US and Eu since early 2005. Because the Eu started making up its own rules and standards. TTIP, ACTA, PIPA were all attempts by the US to bring the Eu to heel. All failed. And voila - there is a proxy war that deprives the Eu out of cheap oil and gas, leading to literal deindustrialization of the Eu. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-09/european-industry-starts-shutting-down-as-energy-prices-soar https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-09/european-... Its not an argument for what you are proposing. Its an argument against it.
      - SkyMarshal 4y ago
        You're asserting way too much causation where it's just correlation.
        unity1001 4y ago
        For those who started following the events in 2005, there is no causation.
- cwkoss 4y ago
  You place a lot more faith in the federal government than I do. CCP can do very little to impact me directly. The feds could ruin my life if they wanted to - just fabricate a few charges.
- unity1001 4y ago
  > I'm aware of that too, it's a problem, but the lesser one imho. How the hell CIA rendition flights are a 'lesser problem'. > Western companies subject to Western laws, which Western citizens have some say in Western public has not been able to change neither the economic policy, nor forign policy, nor the surveillance state laws in the past 40 years. Also, the western laws are wantonly ignored in the west when western corporate or state interests are at stake. So no. ... This is exceptionalism. You are applying to others the standards that you are not applying to your own side, where you have no means to do anything about the problem. Its a coping mechanism that helps avoid cognitive dissonance by projecting 'worse' problems to outside, to external 'enemies'.

SkyMarshal 4y ago

I'm aware of that too, it's a problem, but the lesser one imho. At least there's some modicum of accountability with Western companies subject to Western laws, which Western citizens have some say in (if they get agitated enough at least), thus some possibility for reigning them in. There's much less or none with with Chinese companies operating in the West, and sending all the data they collect back to servers in China, under CCP "law".

rosmax_1337 4y ago
I don't live in the US, I have no clear way at all to change how US government agencies deal with data gathered from citizens of my country. I can't even vote there, not that "voting blue/red" would change this mess at all. It can't be more than a week ago that we discussed here on HN a way that MS Powerpoint can leak your entire presentation to microsoft. Lots of people in my country use the entire MS suite, and I don't think the CIA/FBI/ABCDEFG should have our data.
- SkyMarshal 4y ago
  It's not impossible for other countries to affect US internet companies. The EU GDPR is probably the best example. Once that went into effect, every website began showing popups enabling users to control cookie settings for that website, even within the US to US citizens not subject to GDPR. If there's a country or block of countries with large enough population relative to US, and where US companies operate, it can have some influence on US. That said, yes if you use FB/etc you should assume your data could be used by US intel agencies for similar purposes. Just don't use those apps. Heck, I'm American and refuse to Facebook or any of their other services (Insta, Whatsapp, Meta). None of this stuff is actually necessary to live a happy healthy life, and often even detracts from it.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    > The EU GDPR is probably the best example And that's precisely why there is a trade war in between the US and Eu since early 2005. Because the Eu started making up its own rules and standards. TTIP, ACTA, PIPA were all attempts by the US to bring the Eu to heel. All failed. And voila - there is a proxy war that deprives the Eu out of cheap oil and gas, leading to literal deindustrialization of the Eu. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-09/european-industry-starts-shutting-down-as-energy-prices-soar https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-09/european-... Its not an argument for what you are proposing. Its an argument against it.
    - SkyMarshal 4y ago
      You're asserting way too much causation where it's just correlation.
      - unity1001 4y ago
        For those who started following the events in 2005, there is no causation.
cwkoss 4y ago
You place a lot more faith in the federal government than I do. CCP can do very little to impact me directly. The feds could ruin my life if they wanted to - just fabricate a few charges.
unity1001 4y ago
> I'm aware of that too, it's a problem, but the lesser one imho. How the hell CIA rendition flights are a 'lesser problem'. > Western companies subject to Western laws, which Western citizens have some say in Western public has not been able to change neither the economic policy, nor forign policy, nor the surveillance state laws in the past 40 years. Also, the western laws are wantonly ignored in the west when western corporate or state interests are at stake. So no. ... This is exceptionalism. You are applying to others the standards that you are not applying to your own side, where you have no means to do anything about the problem. Its a coping mechanism that helps avoid cognitive dissonance by projecting 'worse' problems to outside, to external 'enemies'.