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This is absurd, frankly. "The US government collects taxes on US citizens, why not let China collect taxes on US citizens? Its the same." "The US government t

This is absurd, frankly. "The US government collects taxes on US citizens, why not let China collect taxes on US citizens? Its the same." "The US government throws US citizens in jail, why not let Chine throw US citizens in jail? Its the same." Yeah, it would be great if the Federal government turned down their surveillance. That doesn't make it okay for China to run psy-ops against us.

pozdnyshev 4y ago
pjc50 4y ago
https://www.newsy.com/stories/american-athlete-shares-experience-being-detained-in-china/ https://www.newsy.com/stories/american-athlete-shares-experi... (and obviously if you're a US national in China you'll pay Chinese and US taxes, because of the weird extraterritorial taxation of the US)
- dahfizz 4y ago
  Yes; you are pedantically correct, and missing the point entirely.
  - CyanBird 4y ago
    But you don't have a point, you just said "x thing is absurd" then proceeded to write a bunch of strawmen arguments which are not applicable
encryptluks2 4y ago
I see a lot of US psyops and I'm an American. That is even more disturbing IMO. I'd expect it from a foreign nation but not my own country. Also, why can't we just make education about foreign influence part of our curriculum and national discussion. Why do we have to ban things like speech to protect people? That is borderline just becoming China-like in itself.
- sgu999 4y ago
  Critical thinking would be a good start... but TikTok also targets a very young and immature audience that is already protected from many other things by rules.
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    In public elementary school here in the US they literally taught me indoctrination everyday by doing cult like rituals and allegiance to a cloth and history that whitewashed the crimes. How are young people in America supposed to be taught to think freely when they are shunned for thinking outside of the American way?
    - SuoDuanDao 4y ago
      There's a golden mean between insufficient patriotism to defend your kin domain from an outsider whose victory would be genuinely worse than the current status quo, and insufficient self-criticism to prevent your kin domain from becoming worse than the current status quo through inertia. Navigating that kind of dichotomy can be learned through practice, I think the challenge in the US in particular is that the two political parties so associate the other one with one of the unhealthy extremes that the center has trouble holding.
    - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
      Have you seen what happens in China *today*? https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/30/chinese-communist-party-han-baby-boom-sterilization-ethnic-minorities/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/30/chinese-communist-party... Back to topic: Applying critical thinking, you can be patriotic and a critical thinker. You can love a country and still be a critical thinker. Just like you can love a person but be aware of their flaws.
conductr 4y ago
> That doesn't make it okay for China to run psy-ops against us Downloading and using TikTok is a personal choice and you’ve allowed it by doing so as an individual. I don’t think we should ban individual apps from other countries. If we want that, we need some larger more thoughtful policy. But to do so effectively, we essentially need to put up a firewall and ban the sharing of domestically collected data as well (amongst other things, like enforcing these bans.) PSY-ops as mentioned sounds negative but I’d argue it’s what TikTok and social media consumers enjoy the most.
- cscurmudgeon 4y ago
  > Downloading and using TikTok is a personal choice and you’ve allowed it by doing so as an individual. Not if it interferes with security of the country. The same personal choice argument is what folks use to justify other choices that are bad (refusing well test vaccines, not paying taxes, etc.)
  - conductr 4y ago
    I view it more like a vice (smoking, gambling, etc) and as mentioned we need an actual thoughtful policy if we think it’s a security issue. Banning one app at a time is not the way.
    - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
      Almost vices are regulated. > Banning one app at a time is not the way. True, let us ban *all* apps from countries that (1) ban US apps and (2) seek to influence US citizens.
      - conductr 4y ago
        > True, let us ban all apps from countries that (1) ban US apps and (2) seek to influence US citizens. My view is the "app" is just a client for information sharing. It would be like putting up a firewall or banning traffic from certain TLD's. Seems ironic that the solution is to mimic the problem.
sharperguy 4y ago
Isn't the logic reversed in this case? Spying on US citizens is fine as long as you aren't the US government. Hence 5 eyes and so on.
d0mine 4y ago
Should other countries ban facebook, instagram, twitter, youtube, google, etc?

pozdnyshev 4y ago

pjc50 4y ago

https://www.newsy.com/stories/american-athlete-shares-experience-being-detained-in-china/ https://www.newsy.com/stories/american-athlete-shares-experi... (and obviously if you're a US national in China you'll pay Chinese and US taxes, because of the weird extraterritorial taxation of the US)

dahfizz 4y ago
Yes; you are pedantically correct, and missing the point entirely.
- CyanBird 4y ago
  But you don't have a point, you just said "x thing is absurd" then proceeded to write a bunch of strawmen arguments which are not applicable

encryptluks2 4y ago

I see a lot of US psyops and I'm an American. That is even more disturbing IMO. I'd expect it from a foreign nation but not my own country. Also, why can't we just make education about foreign influence part of our curriculum and national discussion. Why do we have to ban things like speech to protect people? That is borderline just becoming China-like in itself.

sgu999 4y ago
Critical thinking would be a good start... but TikTok also targets a very young and immature audience that is already protected from many other things by rules.
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  In public elementary school here in the US they literally taught me indoctrination everyday by doing cult like rituals and allegiance to a cloth and history that whitewashed the crimes. How are young people in America supposed to be taught to think freely when they are shunned for thinking outside of the American way?
  - SuoDuanDao 4y ago
    There's a golden mean between insufficient patriotism to defend your kin domain from an outsider whose victory would be genuinely worse than the current status quo, and insufficient self-criticism to prevent your kin domain from becoming worse than the current status quo through inertia. Navigating that kind of dichotomy can be learned through practice, I think the challenge in the US in particular is that the two political parties so associate the other one with one of the unhealthy extremes that the center has trouble holding.
  - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
    Have you seen what happens in China *today*? https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/30/chinese-communist-party-han-baby-boom-sterilization-ethnic-minorities/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/30/chinese-communist-party... Back to topic: Applying critical thinking, you can be patriotic and a critical thinker. You can love a country and still be a critical thinker. Just like you can love a person but be aware of their flaws.

conductr 4y ago

> That doesn't make it okay for China to run psy-ops against us Downloading and using TikTok is a personal choice and you’ve allowed it by doing so as an individual. I don’t think we should ban individual apps from other countries. If we want that, we need some larger more thoughtful policy. But to do so effectively, we essentially need to put up a firewall and ban the sharing of domestically collected data as well (amongst other things, like enforcing these bans.) PSY-ops as mentioned sounds negative but I’d argue it’s what TikTok and social media consumers enjoy the most.

cscurmudgeon 4y ago
> Downloading and using TikTok is a personal choice and you’ve allowed it by doing so as an individual. Not if it interferes with security of the country. The same personal choice argument is what folks use to justify other choices that are bad (refusing well test vaccines, not paying taxes, etc.)
- conductr 4y ago
  I view it more like a vice (smoking, gambling, etc) and as mentioned we need an actual thoughtful policy if we think it’s a security issue. Banning one app at a time is not the way.
  - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
    Almost vices are regulated. > Banning one app at a time is not the way. True, let us ban *all* apps from countries that (1) ban US apps and (2) seek to influence US citizens.
    - conductr 4y ago
      > True, let us ban all apps from countries that (1) ban US apps and (2) seek to influence US citizens. My view is the "app" is just a client for information sharing. It would be like putting up a firewall or banning traffic from certain TLD's. Seems ironic that the solution is to mimic the problem.

sharperguy 4y ago

Isn't the logic reversed in this case? Spying on US citizens is fine as long as you aren't the US government. Hence 5 eyes and so on.

d0mine 4y ago

Should other countries ban facebook, instagram, twitter, youtube, google, etc?