4 ms·

I still haven't seen how UBI can be funded realistically. Taking the US as an example, where would you find the extra trillions needed every year?

hourago 4y ago
> where would you find the extra trillions needed every year? From where does that number come? Will not the increased productivity of the population make up for any possible cost? It seems that the USA has found a lot of trillions from to subsidize from oil and tech companies to wage war. Why are that costs more important than a real investment in the citizens of the USA?
- FartyMcFarter 4y ago
  > From where does that number come? The US has 258 million adults. If you give everyone $1000 a month that's $3.1 trillion a year. > wage war The whole budget for the department of defense is about $700 billion a year. > Will not the increased productivity of the population make up for any possible cost? I don't know, but it doesn't seem like a given that UBI would increase productivity to that extent (or that it increases productivity at all).
- simonsarris 4y ago
  > Will not the increased productivity of the population make up for any possible cost? Almost every cash transfer program ever studied showed it a work disincentive, not a productivity boost. Some study results compilation: https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2019/basic_income_reduces_employment.html https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2019/basic_income_reduces...
jamil7 4y ago
I think most proponents would say it replaces existing forms of welfare, some pitch it as being cheaper since one can remove a lot of overhead by having everyone be eligible.
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  But most working-age people in the top four quintiles of income don't get any forms of welfare spending, which is directed almost entirely to the poor or the elderly; and overheads are actually a pretty tiny fraction of the social spending in the U.S. (e.g. Social Security has only something like 0.6% administrative overhead). So unless you propose to reduce funding for the poor or elderly, where exactly does this get funded from?
- jonhohle 4y ago
  As myself and others have pointed out, at $1k/month, UBI would have liabilities of $3T/year. Is that in place of SS, Welfare, and Healthcare? That’s what would be required to offset that amount. Or to invert it given the currents system: every man, woman, and child is currently taxed $1k/month to fund existing social service liabilities that are concentrated to a fraction of the population. How do you expand that benefit _and_ include all people as recipients without generating new revenue (e.g. raising taxes).

hourago 4y ago

> where would you find the extra trillions needed every year? From where does that number come? Will not the increased productivity of the population make up for any possible cost? It seems that the USA has found a lot of trillions from to subsidize from oil and tech companies to wage war. Why are that costs more important than a real investment in the citizens of the USA?

FartyMcFarter 4y ago
> From where does that number come? The US has 258 million adults. If you give everyone $1000 a month that's $3.1 trillion a year. > wage war The whole budget for the department of defense is about $700 billion a year. > Will not the increased productivity of the population make up for any possible cost? I don't know, but it doesn't seem like a given that UBI would increase productivity to that extent (or that it increases productivity at all).
simonsarris 4y ago
> Will not the increased productivity of the population make up for any possible cost? Almost every cash transfer program ever studied showed it a work disincentive, not a productivity boost. Some study results compilation: https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2019/basic_income_reduces_employment.html https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2019/basic_income_reduces...

jamil7 4y ago

I think most proponents would say it replaces existing forms of welfare, some pitch it as being cheaper since one can remove a lot of overhead by having everyone be eligible.

NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
But most working-age people in the top four quintiles of income don't get any forms of welfare spending, which is directed almost entirely to the poor or the elderly; and overheads are actually a pretty tiny fraction of the social spending in the U.S. (e.g. Social Security has only something like 0.6% administrative overhead). So unless you propose to reduce funding for the poor or elderly, where exactly does this get funded from?
jonhohle 4y ago
As myself and others have pointed out, at $1k/month, UBI would have liabilities of $3T/year. Is that in place of SS, Welfare, and Healthcare? That’s what would be required to offset that amount. Or to invert it given the currents system: every man, woman, and child is currently taxed $1k/month to fund existing social service liabilities that are concentrated to a fraction of the population. How do you expand that benefit _and_ include all people as recipients without generating new revenue (e.g. raising taxes).