3 ms·

I don't think it's that ridiculous. The default should be not to ban entertainment, and it's not so clearcut whether the danger outweighs the benefits much more

by Tenoke 4y ago

I don't think it's that ridiculous. The default should be not to ban entertainment, and it's not so clearcut whether the danger outweighs the benefits much more than for many other legal forms of entertainment.

lm28469 4y ago
> The default should be not to ban entertainment It's only entertainment if you're completely blind. They're using our tolerance as a weakness, while themselves having absolutely 0 tolerance for western bs/propaganda in their home country This is next level "turning the other cheek"
- Tenoke 4y ago
  It's obviously entertainment. It could additionally be other things, how Top Gun is both entertainment and propaganda or bar drinking is both entertainment and has health risks. The math might come to the risks being higher than the benefits but pretending people aren't entertained by it ironically suggests that you might be more radicalized or brainwashed than TikTok users supposedly are.
  - _aavaa_ 4y ago
    Just because the end user in the US sees it as entertainment doesn’t mean that the CCP treats it as such.
  - lm28469 4y ago
    > It's obviously entertainment. it's not obvious to me at all, in France it's used by islamist organisations to push for communitarianism and separatism, I don't call that entertainment https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/de-youtube-a-tiktok-ces-influenceurs-musulmans-qui-prechent-l-islam-integral-et-branche-20220823 https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/de-youtube-a-tiktok... https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/111122/ados-en-abaya-sur-tiktok-ces-videos-qui-ont-mis-le-gouvernement-en-ebullition https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/111122/ados-en-abaya... https://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2019/10/23/de-la-propagande-pour-l-etat-islamique-detectee-sur-l-application-tiktok_6016607_4408996.html https://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2019/10/23/de-la-propa...
    - Tenoke 4y ago
      By that logic paintings aren't art because the Soviets made some for propaganda purposes.
      - lm28469 4y ago
        ISIS decapitation videos aren't cinema, yet they're videos, the medium doesn't matter, what matters is the message. Unless you want to show ISIS decapitation video at Cannes ? If you want to play on words we can do that all day long, the problem is that it doesn't change the reality, and the reality is that like any other medium it's used for nefarious things, the second problem is that modern technology enables a small amount of people to have an increasingly greater reach and larger audience with fewer and fewer restrictions If you can't see the difference between a soviet era propaganda painting and a 24/7 tool behing used 45 to 90 minute every single day on average by millions of kids/teenagers in their formative years I just feel sad for you to be honest. I can kill someone with a fork, I can kill someone with a 100mt nuke, will you argue they are the same ?
    - lzooz 4y ago
      I'd blame France for their immigration policies more than I would blame a platform full of user-generated content
      - lm28469 4y ago
        Feel free to elaborate on this cryptic comment
        lzooz 4y ago
        France allowed particular demographics to come to the country until they reached a critical mass and became dangerous. That shouldn't have happened.
  - throwaway4aday 4y ago
    > It's obviously entertainment. It could additionally be other things, how Top Gun is both entertainment and propaganda I think you're proving the point here. Yes media can be more than one thing or serve more than one purpose. A good question to ask is how much is it entertainment vs how much is it propaganda? I'd wager that there is a lot of content on TikTok that is mostly propaganda, even if it isn't produced by state actors. Social media has given rise to a new form of propaganda that is self-perpetuating, individuals can gain social clout by repeating the propaganda they hear and adding their own flavor to it (even if they don't add content). Maybe call it Performative Propaganda. Social media algorithms help match up the people producing to those who are susceptible to consuming it and provide a selection mechanism to promote the most effective content. This is all that's needed for "memes" (in the original sense) to behave like their namesake genes and undergo rapid reproduction and evolution. Is any of this state controlled? Maybe a small amount but I would ask does it even need to be state controlled? There's enough folie à deux out there in the world, all you need to do is provide an easy way for it to spread and you could severely damage other cultures.
  - moneytide1 4y ago
    > how Top Gun is both entertainment and propaganda The recent conscription of Mr. Cruise to showcase air superiority is an insight tactically granted at the behest of American government as a reaction to international upheaval. A reminder. After the success of "Star Wars", Mr. Ford fulfilled a similar role in a film about infrastructure sabotage (hydroelectric dam and bridge - Force 10 from Navarone). I always appreciated the Top Gun franchise because there are many scenes showing a large group of people enjoying each other's company.
- CyanBird 4y ago
  > It's only entertainment if you're completely blind "I don't like it so it should be banned" That's such a low level engagement with the matter at hand, sadly these days is the level of discussion here in HN, sad to say that it seems astroturfed, but again, at this point what isn't, right?
  - lm28469 4y ago
    I don't like it and it has measurable negative effects while providing 0 value besides brain washing teens * Then they'll come crying because they don't understand why teenagers depression skyrocketed exactly at the same time as these types of social medias flourished There are plenty of things people like which are banned, that's like the whole basis of living in organised societies....
- angio 4y ago
  It's not a huge conspiracy theory. TikTok moderates content based on the country's law, the US values free speech and so anyone can post anything they want on TikTok (and facebook, twitter). China has strict censorship laws, so content there is moderated. If you don't want to see that type of content on TikTok, then ask the US governemnt to start censoring internet.

by Tenoke 4y ago

lm28469 4y ago

> The default should be not to ban entertainment It's only entertainment if you're completely blind. They're using our tolerance as a weakness, while themselves having absolutely 0 tolerance for western bs/propaganda in their home country This is next level "turning the other cheek"

Tenoke 4y ago
It's obviously entertainment. It could additionally be other things, how Top Gun is both entertainment and propaganda or bar drinking is both entertainment and has health risks. The math might come to the risks being higher than the benefits but pretending people aren't entertained by it ironically suggests that you might be more radicalized or brainwashed than TikTok users supposedly are.
- _aavaa_ 4y ago
  Just because the end user in the US sees it as entertainment doesn’t mean that the CCP treats it as such.
- lm28469 4y ago
  > It's obviously entertainment. it's not obvious to me at all, in France it's used by islamist organisations to push for communitarianism and separatism, I don't call that entertainment https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/de-youtube-a-tiktok-ces-influenceurs-musulmans-qui-prechent-l-islam-integral-et-branche-20220823 https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/de-youtube-a-tiktok... https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/111122/ados-en-abaya-sur-tiktok-ces-videos-qui-ont-mis-le-gouvernement-en-ebullition https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/111122/ados-en-abaya... https://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2019/10/23/de-la-propagande-pour-l-etat-islamique-detectee-sur-l-application-tiktok_6016607_4408996.html https://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2019/10/23/de-la-propa...
  - Tenoke 4y ago
    By that logic paintings aren't art because the Soviets made some for propaganda purposes.
    - lm28469 4y ago
      ISIS decapitation videos aren't cinema, yet they're videos, the medium doesn't matter, what matters is the message. Unless you want to show ISIS decapitation video at Cannes ? If you want to play on words we can do that all day long, the problem is that it doesn't change the reality, and the reality is that like any other medium it's used for nefarious things, the second problem is that modern technology enables a small amount of people to have an increasingly greater reach and larger audience with fewer and fewer restrictions If you can't see the difference between a soviet era propaganda painting and a 24/7 tool behing used 45 to 90 minute every single day on average by millions of kids/teenagers in their formative years I just feel sad for you to be honest. I can kill someone with a fork, I can kill someone with a 100mt nuke, will you argue they are the same ?
  - lzooz 4y ago
    I'd blame France for their immigration policies more than I would blame a platform full of user-generated content
    - lm28469 4y ago
      Feel free to elaborate on this cryptic comment
      - lzooz 4y ago
        France allowed particular demographics to come to the country until they reached a critical mass and became dangerous. That shouldn't have happened.
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  > It's obviously entertainment. It could additionally be other things, how Top Gun is both entertainment and propaganda I think you're proving the point here. Yes media can be more than one thing or serve more than one purpose. A good question to ask is how much is it entertainment vs how much is it propaganda? I'd wager that there is a lot of content on TikTok that is mostly propaganda, even if it isn't produced by state actors. Social media has given rise to a new form of propaganda that is self-perpetuating, individuals can gain social clout by repeating the propaganda they hear and adding their own flavor to it (even if they don't add content). Maybe call it Performative Propaganda. Social media algorithms help match up the people producing to those who are susceptible to consuming it and provide a selection mechanism to promote the most effective content. This is all that's needed for "memes" (in the original sense) to behave like their namesake genes and undergo rapid reproduction and evolution. Is any of this state controlled? Maybe a small amount but I would ask does it even need to be state controlled? There's enough folie à deux out there in the world, all you need to do is provide an easy way for it to spread and you could severely damage other cultures.
- moneytide1 4y ago
  > how Top Gun is both entertainment and propaganda The recent conscription of Mr. Cruise to showcase air superiority is an insight tactically granted at the behest of American government as a reaction to international upheaval. A reminder. After the success of "Star Wars", Mr. Ford fulfilled a similar role in a film about infrastructure sabotage (hydroelectric dam and bridge - Force 10 from Navarone). I always appreciated the Top Gun franchise because there are many scenes showing a large group of people enjoying each other's company.
CyanBird 4y ago
> It's only entertainment if you're completely blind "I don't like it so it should be banned" That's such a low level engagement with the matter at hand, sadly these days is the level of discussion here in HN, sad to say that it seems astroturfed, but again, at this point what isn't, right?
- lm28469 4y ago
  I don't like it and it has measurable negative effects while providing 0 value besides brain washing teens * Then they'll come crying because they don't understand why teenagers depression skyrocketed exactly at the same time as these types of social medias flourished There are plenty of things people like which are banned, that's like the whole basis of living in organised societies....
angio 4y ago
It's not a huge conspiracy theory. TikTok moderates content based on the country's law, the US values free speech and so anyone can post anything they want on TikTok (and facebook, twitter). China has strict censorship laws, so content there is moderated. If you don't want to see that type of content on TikTok, then ask the US governemnt to start censoring internet.