4 ms·

It feels as if we need to subdivide homelessness by root cause (in my mind there are three, hard times, mental health, and substance abuse), universal basic inc

It feels as if we need to subdivide homelessness by root cause (in my mind there are three, hard times, mental health, and substance abuse), universal basic income is not going to address substance abuse and mental health in my mind… but could be a boon to someone living out of their car who’s hit upon some hard times…

likecarter 4y ago
I agree - the problem is varied, and the solution needs to be nuanced.
nmoadev 4y ago
The article says that targeted responses are still also required and compliment UBI.With UBI, someone receiving addiction treatment could also actually stabilize their living situation as well as their mental health.
black_13 4y ago
savanaly 4y ago
It seems clear to me that there are folks that don't have mental health problems but rather very different preferences. Some folks you just can't tell not to keep moving around, and they also dislike working, at least in the types of work available, and would rather beg and scavenge. I'm not sure that scenario falls under any of the three categories, and not sure how to help it either. I think the line is also quite blurry between folks like this and those on hard times and with mental health problems, but there are folks on the other side who we shouldn't forget about or force into a system they don't want to be in.
- themitigating 4y ago
  This is the most eloquent summary of "bums are lazy". I propose it's highly unlikely that a person who is living on streets is doing so simply because they are lazy. Imagine freezing in the winter or sweating in the summer. How about worrying where you'll find food, staying safe from unstable people or maybe even well off people who attack/kill the homeless. Your claim is that this is a choice out of a laziness and not a mental disorder and/or an inability to get a job due to reasons outside of their control. What's also interesting is that if you claim it's their choice then not helping doesn't make you look bad.
  - savanaly 4y ago
    I never claimed any of that stuff you said I did. Are you continuing some other conversation you had elsewhere where the person said something more extreme than what I did without realizing it?
- elil17 4y ago
  Four communities in the US have ended chronic homelessness: https://www.usich.gov/communities-that-have-ended-homelessness/ https://www.usich.gov/communities-that-have-ended-homelessne... This means that, if someone does become homeless in one of those communities, it is brief and one-time. The communities were able to achieve this by providing adequate shelters and housing assistance both before and after people lose their homes. They also used person-by-person outreach to make sure they found everyone who was homeless and got them housing. To me, it seems like that doesn't line up with the idea that some people are predisposed to chronic homelessness/resistant to getting housing.
- scarmig 4y ago
  Very different preferences can be mental health problems, in the sense that their mental state isn't compatible with a healthy society. Even if someone "really" prefers blocking sidewalks with all their worldly possessions and shitting on the streets, that's a problem.
stevespang 4y ago
welshwelsh 4y ago
I have to disagree. Substance abuse and hard times are the same thing, because substance abuse is caused by stress. Usually when we give poor people money, they significantly decrease their spending on drugs and alcohol. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/poverty-homelessness-and-social-stigma-make-addiction-more-deadly-202109282602 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/poverty-homelessness-and... Mental health issues can also be alleviated with money. Regardless of what issues a person is facing, they will function better if they don't have to cope with the stress of poverty.
jamil7 4y ago
I don't agree. I could see UBI keeping a roof over someone with a crippling drinking problems head or giving someone with severe mental health issues enough bandwidth to seek treatment, or at the very least sheltered.
- balderdash 4y ago
  It might for some at the margin, but I’d posit severe substance abuse or mental health issues are largely characterized by the fact that people suffering from these conditions cannot be reliably counted upon to act rationally (and spend money on shelter as opposed to spending it on their addiction or or squander it some other way)
yummypaint 4y ago
The mental health dimension is often less extreme than people imagine. It can be something like a depressed but otherwise "normal" person hitting an unusually low point and being put on suicide watch. Because they are not allowed any outside communication, they can easily lose their job, and now they have potentially exorbitant medical bills to pay on top of trying to recover mentally. Thus begins their slide into homelessness. UBI could be a backstop against this as we hopefully make progress fixing healthcare. One of the biggest strengths of UBI is that it eliminates the beurocracy and waste associated with determining who "deserves" assistance. The dominant model in the US is expecting homeless people with drug problems to solve both their addiction and homelessness at the same time by themselves before they are deemed worthy of being helped, which needless to say is barely assistance at all. Having a gaurenteed income stream would make it easier to gain a foothold.

likecarter 4y ago

I agree - the problem is varied, and the solution needs to be nuanced.

nmoadev 4y ago

The article says that targeted responses are still also required and compliment UBI.With UBI, someone receiving addiction treatment could also actually stabilize their living situation as well as their mental health.

black_13 4y ago

savanaly 4y ago

It seems clear to me that there are folks that don't have mental health problems but rather very different preferences. Some folks you just can't tell not to keep moving around, and they also dislike working, at least in the types of work available, and would rather beg and scavenge. I'm not sure that scenario falls under any of the three categories, and not sure how to help it either. I think the line is also quite blurry between folks like this and those on hard times and with mental health problems, but there are folks on the other side who we shouldn't forget about or force into a system they don't want to be in.

themitigating 4y ago
This is the most eloquent summary of "bums are lazy". I propose it's highly unlikely that a person who is living on streets is doing so simply because they are lazy. Imagine freezing in the winter or sweating in the summer. How about worrying where you'll find food, staying safe from unstable people or maybe even well off people who attack/kill the homeless. Your claim is that this is a choice out of a laziness and not a mental disorder and/or an inability to get a job due to reasons outside of their control. What's also interesting is that if you claim it's their choice then not helping doesn't make you look bad.
- savanaly 4y ago
  I never claimed any of that stuff you said I did. Are you continuing some other conversation you had elsewhere where the person said something more extreme than what I did without realizing it?
elil17 4y ago
Four communities in the US have ended chronic homelessness: https://www.usich.gov/communities-that-have-ended-homelessness/ https://www.usich.gov/communities-that-have-ended-homelessne... This means that, if someone does become homeless in one of those communities, it is brief and one-time. The communities were able to achieve this by providing adequate shelters and housing assistance both before and after people lose their homes. They also used person-by-person outreach to make sure they found everyone who was homeless and got them housing. To me, it seems like that doesn't line up with the idea that some people are predisposed to chronic homelessness/resistant to getting housing.
scarmig 4y ago
Very different preferences can be mental health problems, in the sense that their mental state isn't compatible with a healthy society. Even if someone "really" prefers blocking sidewalks with all their worldly possessions and shitting on the streets, that's a problem.

stevespang 4y ago

welshwelsh 4y ago

I have to disagree. Substance abuse and hard times are the same thing, because substance abuse is caused by stress. Usually when we give poor people money, they significantly decrease their spending on drugs and alcohol. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/poverty-homelessness-and-social-stigma-make-addiction-more-deadly-202109282602 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/poverty-homelessness-and... Mental health issues can also be alleviated with money. Regardless of what issues a person is facing, they will function better if they don't have to cope with the stress of poverty.

jamil7 4y ago

I don't agree. I could see UBI keeping a roof over someone with a crippling drinking problems head or giving someone with severe mental health issues enough bandwidth to seek treatment, or at the very least sheltered.

balderdash 4y ago
It might for some at the margin, but I’d posit severe substance abuse or mental health issues are largely characterized by the fact that people suffering from these conditions cannot be reliably counted upon to act rationally (and spend money on shelter as opposed to spending it on their addiction or or squander it some other way)

yummypaint 4y ago

The mental health dimension is often less extreme than people imagine. It can be something like a depressed but otherwise "normal" person hitting an unusually low point and being put on suicide watch. Because they are not allowed any outside communication, they can easily lose their job, and now they have potentially exorbitant medical bills to pay on top of trying to recover mentally. Thus begins their slide into homelessness. UBI could be a backstop against this as we hopefully make progress fixing healthcare. One of the biggest strengths of UBI is that it eliminates the beurocracy and waste associated with determining who "deserves" assistance. The dominant model in the US is expecting homeless people with drug problems to solve both their addiction and homelessness at the same time by themselves before they are deemed worthy of being helped, which needless to say is barely assistance at all. Having a gaurenteed income stream would make it easier to gain a foothold.