10 ms·
I love when people use microscopic countries with very particular demographics as examples.
by easytiger 4y ago
I love when people use microscopic countries with very particular demographics as examples.
- feet 4y agoI love when people point to demographics as a primary reason for differences between countries
- chiefalchemist 4y agoWhile I see the gist of your point (and agree), the tone is counter-productive. Next time try: Small sample. Small country. Far different social and governmental norms. It might not translate here. But it's not going to hurt to try either. Our options, sadly, seem to be limited.
- gus_massa 4y agoFinland has a population of 5.5 millions, it's not a microscopic country. If it were a USA state, it would be #23, between Minnesota and South Carolina.
- onion2k 4y agoFinland has a population of 5.5m people. It's the 115th largest by population.
- themitigating 4y agoWhat aspect of the demographics makes it a bad example to use?
- suggestion 4y agoThe fact that's it's a tiny, monocultured, de facto ethnostate with near universal shared values, ethics, and history.
- alexb_ 4y agoHow do you think it being a "de facto ethnostate" changes things? Please be specific.
- PM_me_your_math 4y agoDifferent people, values, principles, ethics, concerns; all of which echo in life choices. Finland is going to have a fraction of the gangs, drug problem, and corruption as the United States by virtue of its size, geography, and choices that people who live there will make. You can't even compare Finland with LA or NYC, forget the whole United States. It is pointless to do so. If you want to examine a specific example, ask yourself how many Chicago-style street gangs exist in Finland.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- themitigating 4y agoThere is less crime in finland. Why? You said "Different people, values, principles, ethics, concerns; all of which echo in life choices" Isn't crime mostly connected to economic situations? Doesn't Finland have more social services than the US. Doesn't UBI help people who might otherwise turn to crime
- suggestion 4y agoWhat inclines Finland to overwhelmingly support those policies, voluntarily give up significant portions of their own income, and trust that the state will not misappropriate them?
- themitigating 4y agoIf my car is broken into and my laptop is stolen is that lost income? If someone is raped and has to live with that mental scar is that a loss? You're assuming taxes on income are the only way to lose money. We all pay for the effects of crime. We pay for the police, we pay higher health insurance for others injuries, etc Considering Finland is the highest ranked country for happiness, has a low crime rate, social nets, and universal health care I think copying them is a smart move even to try it. The main problem is the traitor evangelicals who wield power here while they use the government for money and contributing little the economy. They're are filth that we need to clean up first before we can improve this country
- pavlov 4y agoIt's not exactly tiny (5.5M people and a land area larger than Arizona). It's not a monoculture either with a history of multiple ethnicities, diverse languages and a sequence of foreign rulers from both East and West. The Swedish-speaking minority was dominant in Finland until the early 20th century and it was part of the Russian empire. If anything, Finland is a lesson in how a disparate group of people in the poorest corner of Europe can come together, say "Looks like we're a country now, how do we want to do this thing?" and succeed.
- suggestion 4y agoFinland exists because an ethnic group remained distinct while a part of Sweden and broke off into their own country. It's one of the most ethnically and culturally homogeneous countries on the planet at >90% Finnish. https://www.britannica.com/place/Finland/Cultural-life https://www.britannica.com/place/Finland/Cultural-life
- themitigating 4y agoDo you think if I kept asking you to explain more I could trick you into revealing you're just racist towards black people?
- suggestion 4y agoI have no idea how you got here, where you're going, but I'm not falling for your Kafka trap nonsense.
- themitigating 4y agoYou claim ethical values are tied to ethnicity. That's racism
- suggestion 4y agoI explicitly stated they aren't, and that's the most bad faith take possible. I said it is the primary vehicle by which they are transmitted for all of human history, which is a fact. Where did Nazi culture and values come from? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33654481 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33654481
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- themitigating 4y ago"That's not to say the culture, values, and ethics are inextricably bound to the ethnicity, but it is without a doubt a vehicle for sustainment and major factor in policy success or failure." Perhaps I read this wrong, what is a vehicle for whether a policy is successful or a failure? EDIT: I just realized what you meant. Ethical values are transmitted through culture but whether they are followed isn't.
- suggestion 4y agoI worded it very poorly. Ethnicity is, historically, the primary vehicle for the sustainment of culture, values, and ethics. The degree of homogeneity of culture, values, and ethics are a major factor in policy success or failure. Therefore, an ethnically homogeneous area is much more likely to have homogeneous culture, values, and ethics and policies that reflect those things. Sometimes, that homogeneity entails characteristics that lead to a generous, happy, high trust, flourishing society, like Finland. Sometimes it leads to Nazi Germany.
- throwaway13337 4y agoI agree that things can be different with different cultures but it's important to say why specifically this is the reason for this issue. I don't believe it is. We can give a counter example of Salt Lake City, Utah which this npr report claims to have reduced homelessness substantially with the same model. I admit that they do have a different philosophy but maybe the west coast philosophies on homelessness aren't really working out. Utah is culturally different but maybe not so different that they can't learn from them. https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chronic-homelessness-by-91-percent-heres-how https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chroni...
- Ekaros 4y agoThen break up these larger countries to smaller ones? Sounds like obvious solution. If larger countries are such massive failures. Should they exist? As clearly being smaller works better.
- hgfdhgfdhd 4y agoJapan is massive. You don't need to break up larger countries to solve the homeless problem.
- easytiger 4y agoSize is not the only facet
- mritchie712 4y agoThe % of the population that's homeless would be more relevant then the size of the country (esp since Finland is over 1M people).
- hourago 4y ago> ...very particular demographics as examples. All the west has similar demographics (age, gender, ...) . So, what do you mean by this?
- Asmod4n 4y agoGermany does it too, but only in a few cities.