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It's not that simple. There are significant practical concerns (in general) around incarcerating primary care-givers. (Those may not apply so much in this case,

by jmull 4y ago

It's not that simple. There are significant practical concerns (in general) around incarcerating primary care-givers. (Those may not apply so much in this case, though.) There are also societal concerns, assuming we're concerned with the welfare of children.

belorn 4y ago
Should the gender of the primary care-givers matter, or just the fact that a person is a primary care-giver? Is a child welfare impacted more when it is the mother that get incarcerated compared to when it is the father?
- jmull 4y ago
  Those questions have obvious answers, do they not?
  - belorn 4y ago
    The questions are intertangled with culture. In our culture people assume mothers are more important to fathers, making single mothers a better choice in term of child welfare. Practically it is a bit more complex. Single fathers tend to have higher income than single mothers, and social economic status tend to correlate to better welfare for children. Single mothers are also more likely to be below the poverty line than single fathers. Single fathers are also more likely to live with their parents, which might mean that grandparents are more involved with single fathers than single mothers. That might also align to better welfare for the child. But those are complex question and I don't know any study that actually compares single mothers with single fathers and looks at the welfare outcome of the child. Culturally I doubt such study would be allowed, and thus we are back to culture. What we do know is that children raise by a single parents tend to do worse than children raised by two parents, so in that sense children welfare would be better off if the law did not care about the gender of the primary care giver.
    - the_af 4y ago
      The expectation of society on this single fathers with higher income is also different than with mothers. Many jobs don't have provisions for fathers devoting a lot of their day to their kids, except as "cute" exceptions. They often expect fathers to be "successful" and focused on their careers. > Single fathers are also more likely to live with their parents [than single mothers] First time I heard of this. Where are the statistics to support it?
      - belorn 4y ago
        Here is one source (https://realdiapers.org/single-parent/ https://realdiapers.org/single-parent/) but as I said above, I doubt any serious study has actually looked at outcomes for children when comparing single mothers with single fathers. Social economic status being such strong effect (effect on education, health, social strength), I would be very surprised if social expectations and limitations on the father would be strong enough to overwrite those benefits. It is also possible that since society expect fathers to spend their time focusing on the job, grand-parents and the other people around the family feel more social pressure to step in and help out. Some other random number I found doing a glancing blow into the topic, single fathers have significant higher adjusted risk of dying than both single mothers and partnered fathers by a factor of 300% (study done in Canada). A bit strange.
        the_af 4y ago
        > I would be very surprised if social expectations and limitations on the father would be strong enough to overwrite those benefits [social economic status] That's not an argument! For what it's worth, in my experience, high social/economic status jobs don't expect fathers to take too much time taking care of their kids; doing so will cost them their status. Children of unavailable fathers may be affected even if they have grandparents to look after them. > The research suggests that grandparents could play an important role for every grandchild in single father or single-mother households. The research you linked to doesn't make a big difference between single fathers or mothers. It also simply mentions grandparents' potential relevance in raising children with a single parent.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  In this particular case it's not at all clear that having the mother heavily involved in the child's upbringing would actually be a good thing.
ekianjo 4y ago
Children can be adopted. Thats a thing.
- the_af 4y ago
  Giving children into adoption because their primary care-giver is in prison is pretty traumatic and society should avoid this whenever possible. It should be a measure of last resort.

by jmull 4y ago

belorn 4y ago

Should the gender of the primary care-givers matter, or just the fact that a person is a primary care-giver? Is a child welfare impacted more when it is the mother that get incarcerated compared to when it is the father?

jmull 4y ago
Those questions have obvious answers, do they not?
- belorn 4y ago
  The questions are intertangled with culture. In our culture people assume mothers are more important to fathers, making single mothers a better choice in term of child welfare. Practically it is a bit more complex. Single fathers tend to have higher income than single mothers, and social economic status tend to correlate to better welfare for children. Single mothers are also more likely to be below the poverty line than single fathers. Single fathers are also more likely to live with their parents, which might mean that grandparents are more involved with single fathers than single mothers. That might also align to better welfare for the child. But those are complex question and I don't know any study that actually compares single mothers with single fathers and looks at the welfare outcome of the child. Culturally I doubt such study would be allowed, and thus we are back to culture. What we do know is that children raise by a single parents tend to do worse than children raised by two parents, so in that sense children welfare would be better off if the law did not care about the gender of the primary care giver.
  - the_af 4y ago
    The expectation of society on this single fathers with higher income is also different than with mothers. Many jobs don't have provisions for fathers devoting a lot of their day to their kids, except as "cute" exceptions. They often expect fathers to be "successful" and focused on their careers. > Single fathers are also more likely to live with their parents [than single mothers] First time I heard of this. Where are the statistics to support it?
    - belorn 4y ago
      Here is one source (https://realdiapers.org/single-parent/ https://realdiapers.org/single-parent/) but as I said above, I doubt any serious study has actually looked at outcomes for children when comparing single mothers with single fathers. Social economic status being such strong effect (effect on education, health, social strength), I would be very surprised if social expectations and limitations on the father would be strong enough to overwrite those benefits. It is also possible that since society expect fathers to spend their time focusing on the job, grand-parents and the other people around the family feel more social pressure to step in and help out. Some other random number I found doing a glancing blow into the topic, single fathers have significant higher adjusted risk of dying than both single mothers and partnered fathers by a factor of 300% (study done in Canada). A bit strange.
      - the_af 4y ago
        > I would be very surprised if social expectations and limitations on the father would be strong enough to overwrite those benefits [social economic status] That's not an argument! For what it's worth, in my experience, high social/economic status jobs don't expect fathers to take too much time taking care of their kids; doing so will cost them their status. Children of unavailable fathers may be affected even if they have grandparents to look after them. > The research suggests that grandparents could play an important role for every grandchild in single father or single-mother households. The research you linked to doesn't make a big difference between single fathers or mothers. It also simply mentions grandparents' potential relevance in raising children with a single parent.
wizofaus 4y ago
In this particular case it's not at all clear that having the mother heavily involved in the child's upbringing would actually be a good thing.

ekianjo 4y ago

Children can be adopted. Thats a thing.

the_af 4y ago
Giving children into adoption because their primary care-giver is in prison is pretty traumatic and society should avoid this whenever possible. It should be a measure of last resort.