4 ms·

It is possible to overall embrace diversity while at the same time finding disgust or problems with certain aspects of a culture. As an extreme example one can

It is possible to overall embrace diversity while at the same time finding disgust or problems with certain aspects of a culture. As an extreme example one can be against discriminating against Muslims and simultaneously find disgust with the cultural practice of female genital mutilation by some Muslim societies.

rayiner 4y ago
I mean FGM is an extreme example. If it was just that, it wouldn’t come across as so disingenuous. But in practice it seems to reduce to dicing up a foreign culture and embracing only the parts that are consistent with your own. This is especially apparent with Islam, where some westerners claim to embrace it, but really only a Disney-fied version where e.g. hijab is a fashion statement rather than a symbol of submission. That attitude really stands out when confronted with Muslims who believe what Muslims believe, whether about intoxicants or gender roles or whatever else. Of course, zooming out, most people are ethnocentric and think their culture is better than other people’s culture. Most Qataris would say that about New York City. The difference is they don’t pretend like it’s otherwise.
- syzarian 4y ago
  My personal stance is that one can embrace whatever religious views they want and I will support their right to do so. But when their practice of religion includes mandatory hijab, forced segregation of sexes, anti-homosexuality laws, etc. then I’m going to criticize them. This is not inconsistent or hypocritical. I have a set of core values and when people act in ways that violate them then I’m going to criticize them. We all have core beliefs and will judge others based on those beliefs. I have sat through diversity seminars where I was told that my stance is “wrong”. In particular I was told that I have no right to criticize the cultural practice of female genital mutilation when embraced by other cultures. This is idiotic in my opinion. Embracing cultural diversity does not mean subjugating my moral views to the notion of “diversity”.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    Do you claim to embrace diversity? If not then that’s not hypocritical. Most Muslims would disagree with your “core values” on say gender roles. They’re not hypocrites—they have their own core values and they think theirs are right and yours are wrong just as you think yours are right and theirs are wrong. Everyone can criticize everyone else because most people think their own culture is better than other people’s. And that’s fine! If you do claim to embrace diversity, but your “core values” are such you can’t accept 1/4 of the world’s population on their own terms, that’s hypocritical. “Diversity” is what exists in the world. You don’t get to define what’s the acceptable bounds of cultural diversity in terms of your own core values. Maybe there’s a bit of leeway for things like FGM which are outliers. But the particular core values you listed are incompatible with the cultures of half the world’s population if not more.
    - syzarian 4y ago
      I don’t claim people with a different set of values are hypocrites and I don’t believe I suggested otherwise. I do embrace diversity but within the confines of my core beliefs. So it bothers me not one bit that someone thinks eating pork is bad but it does bother me that women are forced to wear a hijab. I do get to define what is acceptable to me. You get to define what is acceptable to you. To me mandatory hijab is asinine and I don’t care if that view offends 1/4 of the world’s population. No reasonable person can be for things that are antithetical to their core beliefs.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        > I do embrace diversity but within the confines of my core beliefs. Then you don't "embrace diversity." You're like the rest of us--you find your own culture preferable, and you'll tolerate certain things from other cultures but not other things. The hypocrisy comes from claiming to embrace "diversity" in and of itself, while insisting that the bounds of acceptable diversity is based on your beliefs. > No reasonable person can be for things that are antithetical to their core beliefs. You don't have to be for or against. "It's none of my business" is also an option.

rayiner 4y ago

I mean FGM is an extreme example. If it was just that, it wouldn’t come across as so disingenuous. But in practice it seems to reduce to dicing up a foreign culture and embracing only the parts that are consistent with your own. This is especially apparent with Islam, where some westerners claim to embrace it, but really only a Disney-fied version where e.g. hijab is a fashion statement rather than a symbol of submission. That attitude really stands out when confronted with Muslims who believe what Muslims believe, whether about intoxicants or gender roles or whatever else. Of course, zooming out, most people are ethnocentric and think their culture is better than other people’s culture. Most Qataris would say that about New York City. The difference is they don’t pretend like it’s otherwise.

syzarian 4y ago
My personal stance is that one can embrace whatever religious views they want and I will support their right to do so. But when their practice of religion includes mandatory hijab, forced segregation of sexes, anti-homosexuality laws, etc. then I’m going to criticize them. This is not inconsistent or hypocritical. I have a set of core values and when people act in ways that violate them then I’m going to criticize them. We all have core beliefs and will judge others based on those beliefs. I have sat through diversity seminars where I was told that my stance is “wrong”. In particular I was told that I have no right to criticize the cultural practice of female genital mutilation when embraced by other cultures. This is idiotic in my opinion. Embracing cultural diversity does not mean subjugating my moral views to the notion of “diversity”.
- rayiner 4y ago
  Do you claim to embrace diversity? If not then that’s not hypocritical. Most Muslims would disagree with your “core values” on say gender roles. They’re not hypocrites—they have their own core values and they think theirs are right and yours are wrong just as you think yours are right and theirs are wrong. Everyone can criticize everyone else because most people think their own culture is better than other people’s. And that’s fine! If you do claim to embrace diversity, but your “core values” are such you can’t accept 1/4 of the world’s population on their own terms, that’s hypocritical. “Diversity” is what exists in the world. You don’t get to define what’s the acceptable bounds of cultural diversity in terms of your own core values. Maybe there’s a bit of leeway for things like FGM which are outliers. But the particular core values you listed are incompatible with the cultures of half the world’s population if not more.
  - syzarian 4y ago
    I don’t claim people with a different set of values are hypocrites and I don’t believe I suggested otherwise. I do embrace diversity but within the confines of my core beliefs. So it bothers me not one bit that someone thinks eating pork is bad but it does bother me that women are forced to wear a hijab. I do get to define what is acceptable to me. You get to define what is acceptable to you. To me mandatory hijab is asinine and I don’t care if that view offends 1/4 of the world’s population. No reasonable person can be for things that are antithetical to their core beliefs.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      > I do embrace diversity but within the confines of my core beliefs. Then you don't "embrace diversity." You're like the rest of us--you find your own culture preferable, and you'll tolerate certain things from other cultures but not other things. The hypocrisy comes from claiming to embrace "diversity" in and of itself, while insisting that the bounds of acceptable diversity is based on your beliefs. > No reasonable person can be for things that are antithetical to their core beliefs. You don't have to be for or against. "It's none of my business" is also an option.