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Micro USB was the EU standard, you already lived through that. That's why every Android and gadget out there used it, as opposed to 50 other connectors before

Micro USB was the EU standard, you already lived through that. That's why every Android and gadget out there used it, as opposed to 50 other connectors before that on feature phones. Apple found a loophole around it by shipping a dongle with iPhones. With the update to the standard that loophole was closed.

noselasd 4y ago
While it was a EU standard, was it also an EU law ? If so, is the law removed, or is everyone breaking that law these days(As I don't see any phones being sold with micro-usb) but noone cares ?
- input_sh 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply#H... To summarize it mostly from memory, it was a voluntary agreement between 10(ish) phone manufacturers (Apple included) and the EU. It had an expiry date, and it was renewed on a yearly basis 2009-2014. In 2014 EU figured out this was working fine, and allowed itself up until 2020 to make it obligatory (as opposed to voluntary). They also took this time to figure out categories of products that should be impacted (headphones, cameras, those sorts of things). Then in 2021 they made changes to the directive, setting Type C as the standard. EU directives are not exactly laws. Instead, it's a way of telling member states what they should be implementing in their own national laws. Member states then have two years to do the actual implementation. So, late 2023 member states will all have slightly different laws, but basically all saying the same (Type C is the only connector allowed, users must have an option to exclude a charger from their purchase). Not quite the same as EU-wide law, but not quite different in practice. So what will happen after Type C is that the directive is going to be changed, and then there's again going to be a few in-between years. Probably somewhere in between 2 (deadline for member states to implement those changes) and 9 years (how long it took this time around, 2014-2023), because next time around they won't have to spend seven years figuring out details.
dahfizz 4y ago
This is often repeated, but wrong. The EU issued a Memorandum of Understanding asking phone manufacturers to use micro B. MoU are not laws, they have no force behind them. Micro B was never required or mandated. It was literally the EU saying "hey guys, please use micro-B on your phone" (with an implicit threat that actual legislation may follow if you don't). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply
- fundatus 4y ago
  Yeah, but the EU said back then: "You either find a common standard, or we're gonna legislate." Companies didn't want legislation, so most of them complied.
  - dahfizz 4y ago
    Yeah, that's what makes me so concerned! By the time the EU actually got around to making the laws they intended, the USB standards had completely evolved. This process has taken well over a decade. It wasn't so bad last time around because manufacturers could upgrade from micro-B to USB-C without issue. Now they cannot legally upgrade.
- input_sh 4y ago
  I know, I intentionally used the term standard, not a law, but also wanted to keep it short. I went into more details in my other reply (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33653799 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33653799). Not being an EU policy expert (nor a citizen) I probably got a thing or two wrong and would appreciate corrections.

noselasd 4y ago

While it was a EU standard, was it also an EU law ? If so, is the law removed, or is everyone breaking that law these days(As I don't see any phones being sold with micro-usb) but noone cares ?

input_sh 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply#H... To summarize it mostly from memory, it was a voluntary agreement between 10(ish) phone manufacturers (Apple included) and the EU. It had an expiry date, and it was renewed on a yearly basis 2009-2014. In 2014 EU figured out this was working fine, and allowed itself up until 2020 to make it obligatory (as opposed to voluntary). They also took this time to figure out categories of products that should be impacted (headphones, cameras, those sorts of things). Then in 2021 they made changes to the directive, setting Type C as the standard. EU directives are not exactly laws. Instead, it's a way of telling member states what they should be implementing in their own national laws. Member states then have two years to do the actual implementation. So, late 2023 member states will all have slightly different laws, but basically all saying the same (Type C is the only connector allowed, users must have an option to exclude a charger from their purchase). Not quite the same as EU-wide law, but not quite different in practice. So what will happen after Type C is that the directive is going to be changed, and then there's again going to be a few in-between years. Probably somewhere in between 2 (deadline for member states to implement those changes) and 9 years (how long it took this time around, 2014-2023), because next time around they won't have to spend seven years figuring out details.

dahfizz 4y ago

This is often repeated, but wrong. The EU issued a Memorandum of Understanding asking phone manufacturers to use micro B. MoU are not laws, they have no force behind them. Micro B was never required or mandated. It was literally the EU saying "hey guys, please use micro-B on your phone" (with an implicit threat that actual legislation may follow if you don't). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply

fundatus 4y ago
Yeah, but the EU said back then: "You either find a common standard, or we're gonna legislate." Companies didn't want legislation, so most of them complied.
- dahfizz 4y ago
  Yeah, that's what makes me so concerned! By the time the EU actually got around to making the laws they intended, the USB standards had completely evolved. This process has taken well over a decade. It wasn't so bad last time around because manufacturers could upgrade from micro-B to USB-C without issue. Now they cannot legally upgrade.
input_sh 4y ago
I know, I intentionally used the term standard, not a law, but also wanted to keep it short. I went into more details in my other reply (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33653799 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33653799). Not being an EU policy expert (nor a citizen) I probably got a thing or two wrong and would appreciate corrections.