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I always find it surprising that so many people here have such a positive attitude towards drugs. I never touched it, am very happy about it, and hope my kids

I always find it surprising that so many people here have such a positive attitude towards drugs. I never touched it, am very happy about it, and hope my kids stay far away from it. I know people who did all kinds of drugs, and nothing positive ever came out of that. Sorry that's just my opinion.

nikisweeting 4y ago
Meet more people.
saiya-jin 4y ago
Wow, you must be one of those few in western society that never touched alcohol, never smoked a cigarette and never consumed sugars! Not that its something to marvel at, but for sure you are a curiosity, just like your kids will be in society. On a more serious note, some drugs do much more good than harm. Some psychedelics have extremely good results when treating hard psychiatric patients with conditions our modern medicine has absolutely 0 cure for. I mean way beyond anything current pharma industry can produce, much less side effects. Its abhorrent and primitive medieval mindset to ban such treatments to those whose lives are completely destroyed by their conditions, just because you were brought up in some primitive society that scaremongered you/your parents into clear falsehoods and lies (ie nixon ban on drugs when demonizing hippies and Mexican immigrants in 60s, which through mandatory UN charts was pushed to the rest of the world even to places like India, where cannabis is a sacred plant of god Shiva).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- koonsolo 4y ago
  I' not a psychiatric patient, and neither are my kids, so I don't see what drugs could do for me. I'm 43 and never had a cigarette in my mouth, and very happy that I don't have to sit in that disgusting smell in cafes anymore. Do I drink alcohol? Yes. Would I mind if my kids don't drink alcohol? No. I saw alcohol destroy families. And your statement that somehow I and my kids would be curiosities in society just because we stay away from that shit makes you look really stupid.
  - pmoriarty 4y ago
    "I' not a psychiatric patient, and neither are my kids, so I don't see what drugs could do for me." Check out "Jack Herer's First Time High"[1]. (If you're curious, there are more details in the first 12 minutes of this bio on him:[2]) Also see what MDMA did for a man with Aspergers: [3] [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYwedCQtW7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYwedCQtW7s [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDRP7rv8ZXc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDRP7rv8ZXc [3] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgWKl_vss0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgWKl_vss0
    - koonsolo 4y ago
      Jack Herer doesn't really seem like the man I aspire to be. Sorry to disappoint, but I also don't have Aspergers.
      - pmoriarty 4y ago
        Smoking pot isn't going to make you in to Jack Herer. He's just describing some amazing experiences people who've never done it probably don't even realize are possible. And the person with Aspergers is again just simply describing experiences which are open to anyone... you don't have to have Apergers to benefit from such experiences, though of course they're not guaranteed to anyone.. nothing in life is, and different people experience these substances differently. Still, I found it interesting. Sorry you did not.
  - dorfsmay 4y ago
    Congrats for not smoking and not using other destructive substances. The issue people are having here is how you're saying "I don't take drugs" and "I don't need them" as a position of judgement rather than as a conclusion of an analysis. How do you define drug? You admit drinking alcohol which as you said destroys families, and a direct correlation has been shown between alcohol consumption and cancer. You cannot use a blanket statement "I don't use drug" without defining what a drug is. If your definition is what's legal, remember that alcohol was illegal in the US at some point and that both tobacco and weed are legal today. When you say "I don't need them", do you drink coffee daily?? Do you eat pastries? If yes, why, given that they have mostly negative effect on health (very high calories, low fiber, low nutritient content) and that we don't need them? It's great to establish hygiene rules based on fact, but reconsider judging others' rules without analysing them properly (hallucinogen are typically not addictive and don't have negative health effects when used in moderate quantities) and your own choices of rules which are somewhat arbitrary (you drink alcohol which is addictive and has negative effect even in small quatities).
sph 4y ago
"I don't know much about something, here's my opinion." The fact that you don't distinguish between categories of drugs is, no offence, a major indicator of ignorance in the subject matter. Hallucinogens are not stimulants are not depressants are not dissociatives are not alcohol. If you mean "illegal drugs", do you really think that the objective, scientific threshold between harmful and harmless is legality? You are free to do whatever you want, it's your body. But perhaps learn more about something you don't know anything about before passing judgement.
- koonsolo 4y ago
  Whatever you recommend to take, I'm sure one of the people I know took it. Did it improve their already normal life? I highly doubt it. I'm not discussing that when you have an illness or mental problem that drugs might help (or which drugs). But just take it because somehow it would "enhance" your life... still need to see proof of that. Most of the "enhancement" that I saw went to other direction.
  - sph 4y ago
    I stand by my point.
  - stevedewald 4y ago
    “Drugs are bad, mmkay” is something we teach kids at an age when they are unable to process more complex or nuanced positions. It’s highly unlikely that you’ve never taken psychoactive substances—caffeine, for example, is found naturally in enough foods that it’s hard to avoid. Many spices produce psychoactive effects—e.g. vanilla, pepper, cinnamon, ginger, saffron, etc. I suspect it’s not your opinion that these are all bad as well. Your kids at some point will be exposed to some of these things, and if “drugs are bad” is what you’re teaching them then they will understand, as we do, that your opinion on this subject really isn’t helpful.
    - koonsolo 4y ago
      > caffeine, for example... vanilla, pepper, cinnamon, ginger, saffron That's great news for you, because now you don't have to take any of the other drugs if you think these things are the same :P. > if “drugs are bad” is what you’re teaching them No, I just show them the people who smoke, and ask them if they want to be like them.
bheadmaster 4y ago
I don't find it surprising that the hacker types, typically curious and rebellious people, would be naturally inclined to experiment with drugs. It seems like a way to hack around with your own mind and see what happens.
boppo1 4y ago
This shouldn't be so downvoted. I've taken a variety of psychedelics, and net effect on my life was never more than an entertaining and/or blissful and/or frightening hallucination. They certainly felt profound, even months or years after, but if I really look at my life, they amount to nothing more than an anecdote. I know plenty of people who take/took them very seriously. None of them are particularly wise, although quite a few believe they are and will try to convince you of their profundity. But it usually boils down to banal platitudes and "psychedelic gibberish". I know old people who have run businesses, fought fires and been through wars and poverty. They possess wisdom that is meaningful and actionable. None of these drug-taking people have gone on to really make a meaningful impact in the human realm compared to the people I know who were focused on diligent hard work. Those people became doctors, engineers, musicians or artists. The psychedelic takers often partake in art, but it's always the same derivative alex grey type stuff.
- nikisweeting 4y ago
  This maybe your conclusion but stating it as base truth is a pretty uninformed take. DNA was discovered on LSD, among countless other major works in math, science, literature, CS, and other fields. Just Google "things discovered on drugs" or "famous/accomplished people that took drugs", the list is loooong.
  - pmoriarty 4y ago
    Some accomplishments that don't get nearly enough credit in discussions like this are art, movies and music. Countless artists, writers and musicians were influenced by psychedelics. It's not hard to make an argument that the music most people listen to and love today would not exist without the influence of psychedelics. The Beatles are just one super famous example, where the influence of psychedelics on their music is super obvious and the tremendous influence of The Beatles is undeniable, but the same could be said of many if not most 60's/70's musicians, which in turn had huge influence on what followed, not to mention the obvious influence of psychedelics on psytrance and dance/club music in general. Something else to consider is that from the time psychedelics were outlawed until very recently admitting psychedelic use was taboo, and so many psychedelic users were in the closet. These are more open times, so some people are admitting it now, but many are still in the closet because coming out as a psychedelic user could still negatively impact your job prospects, the way society in general views you, and perhaps your relationships with people you care about. So there are probably way more psychedelic users out there than most people realize, and their accomplishments when taken as a whole are very significant. How much of such accomplishments were due to the influence of psychedelics? We don't have enough information to say for certain, but there have been studies on the effects of psychedelics on creativity[1][2][3] which show a positive effect. That's not to mention the well demonstrated potential of psychedelics to help with depression, the alleviation of which could also help users to create and contribute to society. [1] - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35105186/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35105186/ [2] - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2723891/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2723891/ [3] - https://www.amazon.com/LSD-Spirituality-Creative-Process-Groundbreaking/dp/0892819731 https://www.amazon.com/LSD-Spirituality-Creative-Process-Gro...
actionfromafar 4y ago
I'll never encourage it, but I have to admit I see DMT and such different from stimulants and weed. From what I've heard is that stimulants and weed are often associated with prolonged use, while DMT (and friends, I don't know much about this) often are used once or a handful of times and give lasting benefits.

nikisweeting 4y ago

Meet more people.

saiya-jin 4y ago

Wow, you must be one of those few in western society that never touched alcohol, never smoked a cigarette and never consumed sugars! Not that its something to marvel at, but for sure you are a curiosity, just like your kids will be in society. On a more serious note, some drugs do much more good than harm. Some psychedelics have extremely good results when treating hard psychiatric patients with conditions our modern medicine has absolutely 0 cure for. I mean way beyond anything current pharma industry can produce, much less side effects. Its abhorrent and primitive medieval mindset to ban such treatments to those whose lives are completely destroyed by their conditions, just because you were brought up in some primitive society that scaremongered you/your parents into clear falsehoods and lies (ie nixon ban on drugs when demonizing hippies and Mexican immigrants in 60s, which through mandatory UN charts was pushed to the rest of the world even to places like India, where cannabis is a sacred plant of god Shiva).

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
koonsolo 4y ago
I' not a psychiatric patient, and neither are my kids, so I don't see what drugs could do for me. I'm 43 and never had a cigarette in my mouth, and very happy that I don't have to sit in that disgusting smell in cafes anymore. Do I drink alcohol? Yes. Would I mind if my kids don't drink alcohol? No. I saw alcohol destroy families. And your statement that somehow I and my kids would be curiosities in society just because we stay away from that shit makes you look really stupid.
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  "I' not a psychiatric patient, and neither are my kids, so I don't see what drugs could do for me." Check out "Jack Herer's First Time High"[1]. (If you're curious, there are more details in the first 12 minutes of this bio on him:[2]) Also see what MDMA did for a man with Aspergers: [3] [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYwedCQtW7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYwedCQtW7s [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDRP7rv8ZXc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDRP7rv8ZXc [3] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgWKl_vss0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgWKl_vss0
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    Jack Herer doesn't really seem like the man I aspire to be. Sorry to disappoint, but I also don't have Aspergers.
    - pmoriarty 4y ago
      Smoking pot isn't going to make you in to Jack Herer. He's just describing some amazing experiences people who've never done it probably don't even realize are possible. And the person with Aspergers is again just simply describing experiences which are open to anyone... you don't have to have Apergers to benefit from such experiences, though of course they're not guaranteed to anyone.. nothing in life is, and different people experience these substances differently. Still, I found it interesting. Sorry you did not.
- dorfsmay 4y ago
  Congrats for not smoking and not using other destructive substances. The issue people are having here is how you're saying "I don't take drugs" and "I don't need them" as a position of judgement rather than as a conclusion of an analysis. How do you define drug? You admit drinking alcohol which as you said destroys families, and a direct correlation has been shown between alcohol consumption and cancer. You cannot use a blanket statement "I don't use drug" without defining what a drug is. If your definition is what's legal, remember that alcohol was illegal in the US at some point and that both tobacco and weed are legal today. When you say "I don't need them", do you drink coffee daily?? Do you eat pastries? If yes, why, given that they have mostly negative effect on health (very high calories, low fiber, low nutritient content) and that we don't need them? It's great to establish hygiene rules based on fact, but reconsider judging others' rules without analysing them properly (hallucinogen are typically not addictive and don't have negative health effects when used in moderate quantities) and your own choices of rules which are somewhat arbitrary (you drink alcohol which is addictive and has negative effect even in small quatities).

sph 4y ago

"I don't know much about something, here's my opinion." The fact that you don't distinguish between categories of drugs is, no offence, a major indicator of ignorance in the subject matter. Hallucinogens are not stimulants are not depressants are not dissociatives are not alcohol. If you mean "illegal drugs", do you really think that the objective, scientific threshold between harmful and harmless is legality? You are free to do whatever you want, it's your body. But perhaps learn more about something you don't know anything about before passing judgement.

koonsolo 4y ago
Whatever you recommend to take, I'm sure one of the people I know took it. Did it improve their already normal life? I highly doubt it. I'm not discussing that when you have an illness or mental problem that drugs might help (or which drugs). But just take it because somehow it would "enhance" your life... still need to see proof of that. Most of the "enhancement" that I saw went to other direction.
- sph 4y ago
  I stand by my point.
- stevedewald 4y ago
  “Drugs are bad, mmkay” is something we teach kids at an age when they are unable to process more complex or nuanced positions. It’s highly unlikely that you’ve never taken psychoactive substances—caffeine, for example, is found naturally in enough foods that it’s hard to avoid. Many spices produce psychoactive effects—e.g. vanilla, pepper, cinnamon, ginger, saffron, etc. I suspect it’s not your opinion that these are all bad as well. Your kids at some point will be exposed to some of these things, and if “drugs are bad” is what you’re teaching them then they will understand, as we do, that your opinion on this subject really isn’t helpful.
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    > caffeine, for example... vanilla, pepper, cinnamon, ginger, saffron That's great news for you, because now you don't have to take any of the other drugs if you think these things are the same :P. > if “drugs are bad” is what you’re teaching them No, I just show them the people who smoke, and ask them if they want to be like them.

bheadmaster 4y ago

I don't find it surprising that the hacker types, typically curious and rebellious people, would be naturally inclined to experiment with drugs. It seems like a way to hack around with your own mind and see what happens.

boppo1 4y ago

This shouldn't be so downvoted. I've taken a variety of psychedelics, and net effect on my life was never more than an entertaining and/or blissful and/or frightening hallucination. They certainly felt profound, even months or years after, but if I really look at my life, they amount to nothing more than an anecdote. I know plenty of people who take/took them very seriously. None of them are particularly wise, although quite a few believe they are and will try to convince you of their profundity. But it usually boils down to banal platitudes and "psychedelic gibberish". I know old people who have run businesses, fought fires and been through wars and poverty. They possess wisdom that is meaningful and actionable. None of these drug-taking people have gone on to really make a meaningful impact in the human realm compared to the people I know who were focused on diligent hard work. Those people became doctors, engineers, musicians or artists. The psychedelic takers often partake in art, but it's always the same derivative alex grey type stuff.

nikisweeting 4y ago
This maybe your conclusion but stating it as base truth is a pretty uninformed take. DNA was discovered on LSD, among countless other major works in math, science, literature, CS, and other fields. Just Google "things discovered on drugs" or "famous/accomplished people that took drugs", the list is loooong.
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  Some accomplishments that don't get nearly enough credit in discussions like this are art, movies and music. Countless artists, writers and musicians were influenced by psychedelics. It's not hard to make an argument that the music most people listen to and love today would not exist without the influence of psychedelics. The Beatles are just one super famous example, where the influence of psychedelics on their music is super obvious and the tremendous influence of The Beatles is undeniable, but the same could be said of many if not most 60's/70's musicians, which in turn had huge influence on what followed, not to mention the obvious influence of psychedelics on psytrance and dance/club music in general. Something else to consider is that from the time psychedelics were outlawed until very recently admitting psychedelic use was taboo, and so many psychedelic users were in the closet. These are more open times, so some people are admitting it now, but many are still in the closet because coming out as a psychedelic user could still negatively impact your job prospects, the way society in general views you, and perhaps your relationships with people you care about. So there are probably way more psychedelic users out there than most people realize, and their accomplishments when taken as a whole are very significant. How much of such accomplishments were due to the influence of psychedelics? We don't have enough information to say for certain, but there have been studies on the effects of psychedelics on creativity[1][2][3] which show a positive effect. That's not to mention the well demonstrated potential of psychedelics to help with depression, the alleviation of which could also help users to create and contribute to society. [1] - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35105186/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35105186/ [2] - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2723891/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2723891/ [3] - https://www.amazon.com/LSD-Spirituality-Creative-Process-Groundbreaking/dp/0892819731 https://www.amazon.com/LSD-Spirituality-Creative-Process-Gro...

actionfromafar 4y ago

I'll never encourage it, but I have to admit I see DMT and such different from stimulants and weed. From what I've heard is that stimulants and weed are often associated with prolonged use, while DMT (and friends, I don't know much about this) often are used once or a handful of times and give lasting benefits.