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If comparing on costs, hosting it on home HW is by far the best way to go. I run Rsync and keep the backup in my shed so it is off-site. Nextcloud provides way

If comparing on costs, hosting it on home HW is by far the best way to go. I run Rsync and keep the backup in my shed so it is off-site. Nextcloud provides way more than data backups. It is best in class for personal internet services. My family and friends use my server for syncing their contacts, calendars, tasks, kanban, music, RSS, bookmarks, passwords, notes, and finances to all their devices. Ours is also setup with Talk for voice and video conferencing, polls, forms, phone tracking, CMS, mail, maps, activity pub social media, and there are a ton of other possible apps. It is perfect solution to avoid Goopple.

tmikaeld 4y ago
Why is home HW the best option? You'd have to: - Purchase the hardware & replace if it breaks - Install the software & keep it updated - Pay for electricity 3.2€, that the Hetzner 1TB storage box costs, would be cheaper than the current EU electricity cost alone.
- pjc50 4y ago
  > 3.2€, that the Hetzner 1TB storage box costs That looks like a really great deal.
- piaste 4y ago
  Presumably you'd be using your regular PC to host Nextcloud. You are correct that you'll spend more in electricity than a Hetzner sub costs, of course. (The 1TB tier costs 5.11€ now btw.) However, Hetzner storage isn't encrypted (AFAIK) so I would _never_ put my personal files in there. I pay the extra cost gladly. There's lots of alternatives, of course - right now Icedrive is the one that I find most interesting, as it has similar prices to Hetzner, provides nextcloud-ish features and is E2E encrypted. I still need to look into how trustworthy they are though.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  > 3.2€, that the Hetzner 1TB storage box costs, would be cheaper than the current EU electricity cost alone. 4.29€ in Germany. And I’d need a server that constsntly consumes 14.5W to make Hetzner cheaper, that’s 3-5 times what my homeserver averages.
  - tmikaeld 4y ago
    I have an HP Microserver Gen 10, average energy consumption is 35W. (4x HDDs) [0] And it's considered one of the most energy efficient. If you have one that's more efficient, it's probably running Raspberry Pi and SSD storage or you're not measuring from the outlet. [0] Similar to: https://www.servethehome.com/hpe-proliant-microserver-gen10-review/5/ https://www.servethehome.com/hpe-proliant-microserver-gen10-...
    - Semaphor 4y ago
      Intel J4105 (Futro S740), running off SSDs. Here are a few user measurements [0], technically in German, but it’s mostly names. Power consumption should be below a PI4 with the same SSDs according to the internet ;) But yeah, with 4 HDDs you will use a lot of power, that is to be expected, HDDs are power hungry. I’d guess they are responsible for most of the consumption. [0]: https://github.com/R3NE07/Futro-S740/blob/main/power_consumption.md https://github.com/R3NE07/Futro-S740/blob/main/power_consump... edit: Also, your server is running AMD Opteron X3421 from 2015. That’s even older than the already old J4105. I doubt that’s currently considered the most energy efficient anywhere.
    - vel0city 4y ago
      I've really wanted one of these, but the price is what stops me in the end. For the benefits I get from using a VPS, the near wash in price in the end pushes me more towards using the cloud. ~$400USD in the used market for the chassis. Add another ~$100 each for four drives, maybe one extra as a spare, so we're at ~$900 for just the hardware assuming your used box had enough RAM and what not for your needs. I have cheap electricity right now at ~$0.09/kWh. 0.035kW * 24 * 30 = 25.2kWh/month, * 0.09 = ~$2.27/mo in power costs. I won't add internet costs as I'd have the same internet connection with or without the server. Over 5 years, the power cost adds up to ~$136.20 at my current rate, which will probably only be higher over the next 5 years. So total costs assuming I don't have any hardware failures outside that one spare hdd over that period is then $1,036.20, or $17.26/mo. Comparatively, I spend $15/mo for a VPS with a large cloud provider doing similar tasks as what I would use that microserver for. For doing things outside my house, it has far better networking than what I could get at home. It has automated backups stored at that cloud provider. It has way more reliable power than just using my mains (I didn't include UPS costs above!) and generally more reliable internet services. Its running a way newer (more features) and faster processor than that Gen 10 microserver is running. It doesn't take up space in my closet. There's definitely networking tradeoffs to consider. With the VPS, obviously I'm limited to my internet connection performance and increased latency between the two sites. But conversely, I probably get better performance on most networks outside my home to that VPS. It then really depends on what kind of access patterns you should prioritize. At the end of that five years, I do technically still have that hardware whereas at the end of 5 years on my VPS I still have a monthly bill. I agree that hardware has an excellent chance of living way more than 5 years, but at the same time it might break somewhere along the way and last you less than 5 years. I definitely have hardware that's lasted over a decade though, so I'd lean towards it lasting a bit more than 5 years. There's pros and cons both ways to think about, and I don't necessarily think either direction is the answer. The answer really depends on what you're wanting to prioritize. I do constantly think about these Gen 10's though, they seem pretty awesome!
- kornhole 4y ago
  I use a Raspberry PI 4B with some MVNE drives. The power consumption is somewhere between 2 and 10 W. I have an extra RPI and backups. Hetzner does have good pricing and is easier for most people than running own HW.
EnKopVand 4y ago
> in my shed so it is off-site. My neighbour had a lightning strike hit their robot grass mower. It fried every electronic device on their parcel. Including half the non-connected power tools in their non-house-connected shed. It was a wild thing to witness the aftermath of. Basically anything electric that had been semi-close to the robot grass mower "stop here" line circling the grass, got fried. The plastic of on none-electric tool literally melted. Nobody got hurt, thankfully. Your shed may be on another planet for all I know, but the amount of damage caused sure made me respect the "two separate physical locations" more than I used to.
- ilyt 4y ago
  Yeah I bought some cheap server with storage off OVH and keep a syncthing instance there (with archiving enabled) + some backups just for that reason. I kinda thought about also getting a solar/battery backed small server that was connected via WiFi for backup for galvanic isolation (for case when it hits nearby power pole and not building directly) but eh, would need to be in noticeable distance from everything else to make sense
- kornhole 4y ago
  That is a good story. My shed is in the corner of the yard. I physically walk my backup drive back and forth once a week and keep it in a box unconnected to any electrical. Call me a cheapskate, but I don't mind.
Semaphor 4y ago
They don’t have an issue with those apps? As I use NC for Syncing, I thought I’d try the other apps. They were all horrible. RSS, Music, bookmarks, notes, recipes, contacts. They are all far below what any of the dedicated replacements offer. The unified interface is nice, but doesn’t make it worth it for me.
- kornhole 4y ago
  I describe it as best in class rather than best of breed. Having one instance of Nextcloud rather than a bunch of different containers for the different functions is easier to maintain and backup. I don't know when you tested these apps, but they have been progressing rapidly. I find most are really good now.
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    Been a year. But the apps were so far behind standalone services, they had a long way to go

tmikaeld 4y ago

Why is home HW the best option? You'd have to: - Purchase the hardware & replace if it breaks - Install the software & keep it updated - Pay for electricity 3.2€, that the Hetzner 1TB storage box costs, would be cheaper than the current EU electricity cost alone.

pjc50 4y ago
> 3.2€, that the Hetzner 1TB storage box costs That looks like a really great deal.
piaste 4y ago
Presumably you'd be using your regular PC to host Nextcloud. You are correct that you'll spend more in electricity than a Hetzner sub costs, of course. (The 1TB tier costs 5.11€ now btw.) However, Hetzner storage isn't encrypted (AFAIK) so I would _never_ put my personal files in there. I pay the extra cost gladly. There's lots of alternatives, of course - right now Icedrive is the one that I find most interesting, as it has similar prices to Hetzner, provides nextcloud-ish features and is E2E encrypted. I still need to look into how trustworthy they are though.
Semaphor 4y ago
> 3.2€, that the Hetzner 1TB storage box costs, would be cheaper than the current EU electricity cost alone. 4.29€ in Germany. And I’d need a server that constsntly consumes 14.5W to make Hetzner cheaper, that’s 3-5 times what my homeserver averages.
- tmikaeld 4y ago
  I have an HP Microserver Gen 10, average energy consumption is 35W. (4x HDDs) [0] And it's considered one of the most energy efficient. If you have one that's more efficient, it's probably running Raspberry Pi and SSD storage or you're not measuring from the outlet. [0] Similar to: https://www.servethehome.com/hpe-proliant-microserver-gen10-review/5/ https://www.servethehome.com/hpe-proliant-microserver-gen10-...
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    Intel J4105 (Futro S740), running off SSDs. Here are a few user measurements [0], technically in German, but it’s mostly names. Power consumption should be below a PI4 with the same SSDs according to the internet ;) But yeah, with 4 HDDs you will use a lot of power, that is to be expected, HDDs are power hungry. I’d guess they are responsible for most of the consumption. [0]: https://github.com/R3NE07/Futro-S740/blob/main/power_consumption.md https://github.com/R3NE07/Futro-S740/blob/main/power_consump... edit: Also, your server is running AMD Opteron X3421 from 2015. That’s even older than the already old J4105. I doubt that’s currently considered the most energy efficient anywhere.
  - vel0city 4y ago
    I've really wanted one of these, but the price is what stops me in the end. For the benefits I get from using a VPS, the near wash in price in the end pushes me more towards using the cloud. ~$400USD in the used market for the chassis. Add another ~$100 each for four drives, maybe one extra as a spare, so we're at ~$900 for just the hardware assuming your used box had enough RAM and what not for your needs. I have cheap electricity right now at ~$0.09/kWh. 0.035kW * 24 * 30 = 25.2kWh/month, * 0.09 = ~$2.27/mo in power costs. I won't add internet costs as I'd have the same internet connection with or without the server. Over 5 years, the power cost adds up to ~$136.20 at my current rate, which will probably only be higher over the next 5 years. So total costs assuming I don't have any hardware failures outside that one spare hdd over that period is then $1,036.20, or $17.26/mo. Comparatively, I spend $15/mo for a VPS with a large cloud provider doing similar tasks as what I would use that microserver for. For doing things outside my house, it has far better networking than what I could get at home. It has automated backups stored at that cloud provider. It has way more reliable power than just using my mains (I didn't include UPS costs above!) and generally more reliable internet services. Its running a way newer (more features) and faster processor than that Gen 10 microserver is running. It doesn't take up space in my closet. There's definitely networking tradeoffs to consider. With the VPS, obviously I'm limited to my internet connection performance and increased latency between the two sites. But conversely, I probably get better performance on most networks outside my home to that VPS. It then really depends on what kind of access patterns you should prioritize. At the end of that five years, I do technically still have that hardware whereas at the end of 5 years on my VPS I still have a monthly bill. I agree that hardware has an excellent chance of living way more than 5 years, but at the same time it might break somewhere along the way and last you less than 5 years. I definitely have hardware that's lasted over a decade though, so I'd lean towards it lasting a bit more than 5 years. There's pros and cons both ways to think about, and I don't necessarily think either direction is the answer. The answer really depends on what you're wanting to prioritize. I do constantly think about these Gen 10's though, they seem pretty awesome!
kornhole 4y ago
I use a Raspberry PI 4B with some MVNE drives. The power consumption is somewhere between 2 and 10 W. I have an extra RPI and backups. Hetzner does have good pricing and is easier for most people than running own HW.

EnKopVand 4y ago

> in my shed so it is off-site. My neighbour had a lightning strike hit their robot grass mower. It fried every electronic device on their parcel. Including half the non-connected power tools in their non-house-connected shed. It was a wild thing to witness the aftermath of. Basically anything electric that had been semi-close to the robot grass mower "stop here" line circling the grass, got fried. The plastic of on none-electric tool literally melted. Nobody got hurt, thankfully. Your shed may be on another planet for all I know, but the amount of damage caused sure made me respect the "two separate physical locations" more than I used to.

ilyt 4y ago
Yeah I bought some cheap server with storage off OVH and keep a syncthing instance there (with archiving enabled) + some backups just for that reason. I kinda thought about also getting a solar/battery backed small server that was connected via WiFi for backup for galvanic isolation (for case when it hits nearby power pole and not building directly) but eh, would need to be in noticeable distance from everything else to make sense
kornhole 4y ago
That is a good story. My shed is in the corner of the yard. I physically walk my backup drive back and forth once a week and keep it in a box unconnected to any electrical. Call me a cheapskate, but I don't mind.

Semaphor 4y ago

They don’t have an issue with those apps? As I use NC for Syncing, I thought I’d try the other apps. They were all horrible. RSS, Music, bookmarks, notes, recipes, contacts. They are all far below what any of the dedicated replacements offer. The unified interface is nice, but doesn’t make it worth it for me.

kornhole 4y ago
I describe it as best in class rather than best of breed. Having one instance of Nextcloud rather than a bunch of different containers for the different functions is easier to maintain and backup. I don't know when you tested these apps, but they have been progressing rapidly. I find most are really good now.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  Been a year. But the apps were so far behind standalone services, they had a long way to go