4 ms·

I'm not trying to dismiss your experience here, in fact I'm sure its all accurate, but I must make the curious observation that I don't seem to get the distorti

I'm not trying to dismiss your experience here, in fact I'm sure its all accurate, but I must make the curious observation that I don't seem to get the distortion of emotional state so many others seem to have on psychedelics (be it positive or negative). I get all the other distortions. Time is skewed, vision gets geometric patterns, stream of consciousness becomes more of an unnavigable white water rapids of consciousness etc. But the whole experience is mostly orthogonal to good or bad or scared or euphoric or any other emotion you can list. Maybe its because whatever the distortion is, I inevitably start trying to figure out how it works, and the whole trip turns into scientific self experimentation. Perhaps a normal person would be scared seeing a friends face morph into a demonic figure, but I just find myself asking "why his face and not everyone's face?" and then proceed to systematically look at faces for what feels like hours. Because I'm actively trying to figure out the trick, I'm never losing sight of the fact that it is indeed a trick. And thus I never loose sight of the fact that my friend isn't literally morphing into a demon and none of this can actually hurt me. So I'm never for real scared.

Trasmatta 4y ago
> Perhaps a normal person would be scared seeing a friends face morph into a demonic figure, but I just find myself asking "why his face and not everyone's face?" and then proceed to systematically look at faces for what feels like hours On some drugs, dosages, and settings, you can lose all concept of what a "face" is. Or even what "is" is. All I knew was pain, suffering, torment, spinning, and eternity.
- IIAOPSW 4y ago
  I'm not denying that its possible to lose all concept of a "face" or even know what "is" is and to only be left with pain, suffering, spinning and eternity. On the contrary, I find it to be an immensely scientifically valuable observation that you lost all concept of a face, didn't know what "is" is and only knew pain, suffering, spinning and eternity. Just knowing that you end up with that experience and other people do not tells us something insightful about which sorts of brain function are universally hard wired and which parts can differ from person to person. Maybe it is possible to sidestep the badness you experienced by trying to focus on scientific self experimentation like I end up doing. Maybe that's just not possible for you for neuro-physical reasons. If you ever decide to trip again, try it and let us know if it works.
  - boppo1 4y ago
    This is an example what I dislike about proponents of psychedelics. The condescending tone and appeals to "science" when a scientific method is nowhere to be found.
    - nikisweeting 4y ago
      "nowhere to be found" Seems you don't hang out on Psychonautwiki, r/researchchemicals, MAPS.org, or any of the highly scientific drug communities going about deliberate, skeptical research in the space. Just because you don't look for them doesn't mean they aren't there. If your only experience is hanging out with fried deadhead hippies I can see how you might reach this conclusion, but the space is broad and deep and many other types of people approach and research it.
      - pmoriarty 4y ago
        Not to mention Johns Hopkins and many other prestigious research universities which are studying psychedelics. Many of these highly respected researchers are psychedelic advocates.
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  "you can lose all concept of what a "face" is. Or even what "is" is" Not only that, it's not uncommon to forget that you've even taken anything, and these experiences are often felt as "more real than real". This is why it's important to do to have an experienced person you like and trust there with you. They can remind you that you are under the influence, comfort you if you need it, and keep you safe.
gunshai 4y ago
I too feel quite similar. I have never had any experience approach bad. The experience just... Is
- Trasmatta 4y ago
  The experience isn't bad until it is. And then the bell can't be unrung.
  - uwagar 4y ago
    yes but if u stick long enough, a bad trip can turn into a good trip. just some bit flips and bang u are out into hyperspace again.
    - Trasmatta 4y ago
      There's no guarantee of this.
      - uwagar 4y ago
        but there is also no guarantee of every trip being your kind of horrible experience either (i do respect your experience though and its a good warning you are giving people that just blindly waltz into it). i've had my share of horror trips and some totally life changingly awesome trips too. basically, if you dont end up in hospital or break out of the trip with benzos or similar, then you are going to turn that bad trip into something less bad to good was what i was trying to get at.
pmoriarty 4y ago
"I don't seem to get the distortion of emotional state so many others seem to have on psychedelics (be it positive or negative). I get all the other distortions. ... I inevitably start trying to figure out how it works, and the whole trip turns into scientific self experimentation." This sounds like a defense mechanism on a dose low enough that your mind can still defend itself like that. It's possible to take such a strong dose of psychedelics that they blow through any such defense mechanisms. Unfortunately, such doses sometimes lead to amnesia afterwards, as the mind may still try to defend itself from even the memory of it. This is yet another reason to do this under the guidance of a trained therapist, who can prepare you for the experience, help you to engage with the experience instead of trying to talk yourself out of it, and help you integrate it afterwards.
- IIAOPSW 4y ago
  This reads like the psychedelic equivalent of "true Communism has never been tried." You're saying psychedelics always have whatever emotional effect, and if they seemingly don't well its your fault for putting up a defense mechanism, or actually it did work but you don't remember. Why are you rationalizing this? How are you so sure that there really aren't people who simply don't get major distortions to their emotional state, and that there isn't anything wrong with them?

Trasmatta 4y ago

> Perhaps a normal person would be scared seeing a friends face morph into a demonic figure, but I just find myself asking "why his face and not everyone's face?" and then proceed to systematically look at faces for what feels like hours On some drugs, dosages, and settings, you can lose all concept of what a "face" is. Or even what "is" is. All I knew was pain, suffering, torment, spinning, and eternity.

IIAOPSW 4y ago
I'm not denying that its possible to lose all concept of a "face" or even know what "is" is and to only be left with pain, suffering, spinning and eternity. On the contrary, I find it to be an immensely scientifically valuable observation that you lost all concept of a face, didn't know what "is" is and only knew pain, suffering, spinning and eternity. Just knowing that you end up with that experience and other people do not tells us something insightful about which sorts of brain function are universally hard wired and which parts can differ from person to person. Maybe it is possible to sidestep the badness you experienced by trying to focus on scientific self experimentation like I end up doing. Maybe that's just not possible for you for neuro-physical reasons. If you ever decide to trip again, try it and let us know if it works.
- boppo1 4y ago
  This is an example what I dislike about proponents of psychedelics. The condescending tone and appeals to "science" when a scientific method is nowhere to be found.
  - nikisweeting 4y ago
    "nowhere to be found" Seems you don't hang out on Psychonautwiki, r/researchchemicals, MAPS.org, or any of the highly scientific drug communities going about deliberate, skeptical research in the space. Just because you don't look for them doesn't mean they aren't there. If your only experience is hanging out with fried deadhead hippies I can see how you might reach this conclusion, but the space is broad and deep and many other types of people approach and research it.
    - pmoriarty 4y ago
      Not to mention Johns Hopkins and many other prestigious research universities which are studying psychedelics. Many of these highly respected researchers are psychedelic advocates.
pmoriarty 4y ago
"you can lose all concept of what a "face" is. Or even what "is" is" Not only that, it's not uncommon to forget that you've even taken anything, and these experiences are often felt as "more real than real". This is why it's important to do to have an experienced person you like and trust there with you. They can remind you that you are under the influence, comfort you if you need it, and keep you safe.

gunshai 4y ago

I too feel quite similar. I have never had any experience approach bad. The experience just... Is

Trasmatta 4y ago
The experience isn't bad until it is. And then the bell can't be unrung.
- uwagar 4y ago
  yes but if u stick long enough, a bad trip can turn into a good trip. just some bit flips and bang u are out into hyperspace again.
  - Trasmatta 4y ago
    There's no guarantee of this.
    - uwagar 4y ago
      but there is also no guarantee of every trip being your kind of horrible experience either (i do respect your experience though and its a good warning you are giving people that just blindly waltz into it). i've had my share of horror trips and some totally life changingly awesome trips too. basically, if you dont end up in hospital or break out of the trip with benzos or similar, then you are going to turn that bad trip into something less bad to good was what i was trying to get at.

pmoriarty 4y ago

"I don't seem to get the distortion of emotional state so many others seem to have on psychedelics (be it positive or negative). I get all the other distortions. ... I inevitably start trying to figure out how it works, and the whole trip turns into scientific self experimentation." This sounds like a defense mechanism on a dose low enough that your mind can still defend itself like that. It's possible to take such a strong dose of psychedelics that they blow through any such defense mechanisms. Unfortunately, such doses sometimes lead to amnesia afterwards, as the mind may still try to defend itself from even the memory of it. This is yet another reason to do this under the guidance of a trained therapist, who can prepare you for the experience, help you to engage with the experience instead of trying to talk yourself out of it, and help you integrate it afterwards.

IIAOPSW 4y ago
This reads like the psychedelic equivalent of "true Communism has never been tried." You're saying psychedelics always have whatever emotional effect, and if they seemingly don't well its your fault for putting up a defense mechanism, or actually it did work but you don't remember. Why are you rationalizing this? How are you so sure that there really aren't people who simply don't get major distortions to their emotional state, and that there isn't anything wrong with them?