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Is losing information on the war really a bad thing? I mean of course it is for people living in Ukraine who need updated information to survive. (But I would

by gretch 4y ago

Is losing information on the war really a bad thing? I mean of course it is for people living in Ukraine who need updated information to survive. (But I would also hope they have govt sponsored alternatives) But I actually thought it was deeply disturbing how many ppl in unrelated places, like California, would wake up and look forward to getting a fresh voyeur look on the suffering of others. Ppl were spectating and commenting like it was the latest season of game of thrones. Most likely ppl did some unintentional desensitization to themselves unknowingly. Imo, not having such information is a net positive for society. Yes we should study war to not repeat historical mistakes. That’s completely different that what I saw a lot of Twitter coverage was tho

justin66 4y ago
That "fresh voyeur look on the suffering of others" (odd framing) is why there is widespread, bipartisan political support for supporting Ukraine with munitions and money. People wouldn't make that choice if they did not know what is going on.
- gretch 4y ago
  I don’t think that’s true at all? Support was setup and had been streaming into to Ukraine for a long time before any confirmation of a war, much less images. I remember when trump was president and there was the dispute where he was holding back the regular defense aid that the US sends to Ukraine. The point being that hundreds of millions were approved and sent with 0 tweets about the war (literally didn’t happen yet)
  - themacguffinman 4y ago
    The United States is perhaps Ukraine's biggest supporter for strategic reasons, but it's also critical that Europe supports Ukraine and their support has been a lot more uncertain and reliant on democratic pressure. Even the USA's support will wane if the economic costs create democratic pressure against Ukrainian support. One half of US Congress has just come under control by the GOP, a major political party that has a prominent isolationist faction who have been pretty open that they don't see the point in opposing Putin and would rather focus on domestic concerns. This isolationist pressure is well contained in the US thus far because Americans are swimming in sympathetic media coverage of Ukraine.
  - justin66 4y ago
    Perhaps you’re unaware that the level of funding, the level of awareness of what’s happening in Ukraine, the situation itself in Ukraine, have all changed since, you know, the invasion began.
shagie 4y ago
> Is losing information on the war really a bad thing? From the other day: https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/11/1063162/twitters-imminent-collapse-could-wipe-out-vast-records-of-recent-human-history/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/11/1063162/twitters... But then we get to other issues such as 'Lost memories': War crimes evidence threatened by AI moderation - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-socialmedia-rights-trfn-idUSKBN23Q2TO https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-socialmedia-rights... And further back: Youtube and Facebook are Removing Evidence of Atrocities, Jeopardizing Cases Against War Criminals https://theintercept.com/2017/11/02/war-crimes-youtube-facebook-syria-rohingya/ https://theintercept.com/2017/11/02/war-crimes-youtube-faceb... Recently: Are tech companies removing evidence of war crimes? https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60911099 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60911099 Or from the EFF - Amidst Invasion of Ukraine, Platforms Continue to Erase Critical War Crimes Documentation - https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/04/amidst-invasion-ukraine-platforms-continue-erase-critical-war-crimes-documentation https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/04/amidst-invasion-ukrain... So yes, losing information on the war is a bad thing.
- voakbasda 4y ago
  Seems like these companies should be charged with aiding and abetting those war criminals, since they are actively destroying evidence of their crimes.

by gretch 4y ago

justin66 4y ago

That "fresh voyeur look on the suffering of others" (odd framing) is why there is widespread, bipartisan political support for supporting Ukraine with munitions and money. People wouldn't make that choice if they did not know what is going on.

gretch 4y ago
I don’t think that’s true at all? Support was setup and had been streaming into to Ukraine for a long time before any confirmation of a war, much less images. I remember when trump was president and there was the dispute where he was holding back the regular defense aid that the US sends to Ukraine. The point being that hundreds of millions were approved and sent with 0 tweets about the war (literally didn’t happen yet)
- themacguffinman 4y ago
  The United States is perhaps Ukraine's biggest supporter for strategic reasons, but it's also critical that Europe supports Ukraine and their support has been a lot more uncertain and reliant on democratic pressure. Even the USA's support will wane if the economic costs create democratic pressure against Ukrainian support. One half of US Congress has just come under control by the GOP, a major political party that has a prominent isolationist faction who have been pretty open that they don't see the point in opposing Putin and would rather focus on domestic concerns. This isolationist pressure is well contained in the US thus far because Americans are swimming in sympathetic media coverage of Ukraine.
- justin66 4y ago
  Perhaps you’re unaware that the level of funding, the level of awareness of what’s happening in Ukraine, the situation itself in Ukraine, have all changed since, you know, the invasion began.

shagie 4y ago

> Is losing information on the war really a bad thing? From the other day: https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/11/1063162/twitters-imminent-collapse-could-wipe-out-vast-records-of-recent-human-history/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/11/1063162/twitters... But then we get to other issues such as 'Lost memories': War crimes evidence threatened by AI moderation - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-socialmedia-rights-trfn-idUSKBN23Q2TO https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-socialmedia-rights... And further back: Youtube and Facebook are Removing Evidence of Atrocities, Jeopardizing Cases Against War Criminals https://theintercept.com/2017/11/02/war-crimes-youtube-facebook-syria-rohingya/ https://theintercept.com/2017/11/02/war-crimes-youtube-faceb... Recently: Are tech companies removing evidence of war crimes? https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60911099 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60911099 Or from the EFF - Amidst Invasion of Ukraine, Platforms Continue to Erase Critical War Crimes Documentation - https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/04/amidst-invasion-ukraine-platforms-continue-erase-critical-war-crimes-documentation https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/04/amidst-invasion-ukrain... So yes, losing information on the war is a bad thing.

voakbasda 4y ago
Seems like these companies should be charged with aiding and abetting those war criminals, since they are actively destroying evidence of their crimes.