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They could still do RSUs but you’ve got some big creditors who are first in line.

ncallaway 4y ago
And… is there even a future liquidity event planned? How helpful is an RSU if there’s no opportunity to turn it into cash at some future date?
- Balgair 4y ago
  All this would make some sense, but Elon is asking for a blank check from the remaining employees. There is no promise right now, there is no pay off, there are no RSUs, there is no liquidity event, there is ... nothing. Just one of the wealthiest people in history asking people to work 12 hour days every day of the week, forever, for some nebulous reasons that he can't state, just because. Such a radical renegotiation of the employment agreement between the workers and the management requires a LOT of study and time. Not two days and clicking a button that says you agree to something. You'd be crazy to agree to this, and Elon would be crazy to think that anyone that did click is doing anything but trying to find another job while at work.
  - netsharc 4y ago
    > Elon would be crazy to think that anyone that did click is doing anything but trying to find another job while at work. Haha, can someone tweet this at him so he sees it. He thinks he'll be getting dedicated loyal employees (let's deem them the Yes-clickers), but if he becomes aware of this flaw in his plan, he's going to treat them with paranoia and mistrust as well. I really munch popcorn hope he twigs that soon.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    While holidays are coming up (so probably not much happening for a month or two on the employment front) and pretty slow times in the tech sector in general, I think I'd still be hard put to turn down 3 months (supposedly) guaranteed at this point. Obviously visa holders might be in a different boat as may people preferring to keep an uncertain but possibly longer-term job whatever the pain. However, given the uncertainty even for those who stay, I can't imagine not taking the payout for most.
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    > Just one of the wealthiest people in history asking people to work 12 hour days every day of the week, forever, for some nebulous reasons that he can't state, just because. "a company for carrying out an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is"
    - AlexMoffat 4y ago
      Lombard Street?
- slg 4y ago
  And even if there is a future liquidity event, what could the return possibly be? Musk already bought Twitter at a premium over the market, then the whole market backslid, then he took control and cratered the company even further. Any equity is already a small fraction of what it would have been worth before this whole ordeal. To get any startup like return, Musk doesn't have to just right the ship, he has to make Twitter drastically more successful than it was before. Part of the deal of going "hardcore" working at a startup is that you get a small chance of becoming rich. I don't think working 80 hrs/wk is worth it when the upside is adding an extra 20% or whatever onto your salary.
  - a4isms 4y ago
    Besides getting rich there is always the mission. So the question to ask Elon is... "How many people still working at Twitter hated all the woke crap like banning Nazis and were practically begging some conservative billionaire to buy the site, fire everyone, and turn it into an extremely successful free-speech Libertarian playground like Parler or Truth Social?" Those are the only people who would willingly take his offer. Almost everyone else working there now has a job mobility problem, but the moment that problem gets solved, they're out. Some businesses do just fine with employees that don't really want to work there, but they typically have enormous hiring funnels running 24/7/365 to handle the churn. Like McDonalds or Amazon's warehouses. Twitter doesn't have that, and you won;t find it at PayPal, Tesla, or SpaceX.
    - VectorLock 4y ago
      They have all the H1Bs who can't leave. So essentially Twitter just became Infosys.
a4isms 4y ago
Or to put it another way: Interviewee: "What's my upside here?" Elon: "RSUs in this illiquid private company." Interviewee: "Under what circumstances do they become liquid?" Elon: "We have to first make money above and beyond paying this crushing debt, then we have to have a growth story to sell to the public, then we go public, then you wait out the employee lockout period, and if you're still an employee, you can sell your RSUs." Interviewee: "So, like, 2-5 years of sleeping in the office to win Survivor Twitter and not get fired, plus I have to depend upon you to steer us to profitability." Elon: "Exactly. And when it comes to profitability, my favourite tactic is firing people like you."
- halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
  Beautifully written.

And… is there even a future liquidity event planned? How helpful is an RSU if there’s no opportunity to turn it into cash at some future date?

Balgair 4y ago
All this would make some sense, but Elon is asking for a blank check from the remaining employees. There is no promise right now, there is no pay off, there are no RSUs, there is no liquidity event, there is ... nothing. Just one of the wealthiest people in history asking people to work 12 hour days every day of the week, forever, for some nebulous reasons that he can't state, just because. Such a radical renegotiation of the employment agreement between the workers and the management requires a LOT of study and time. Not two days and clicking a button that says you agree to something. You'd be crazy to agree to this, and Elon would be crazy to think that anyone that did click is doing anything but trying to find another job while at work.
- netsharc 4y ago
  > Elon would be crazy to think that anyone that did click is doing anything but trying to find another job while at work. Haha, can someone tweet this at him so he sees it. He thinks he'll be getting dedicated loyal employees (let's deem them the Yes-clickers), but if he becomes aware of this flaw in his plan, he's going to treat them with paranoia and mistrust as well. I really munch popcorn hope he twigs that soon.
- ghaff 4y ago
  While holidays are coming up (so probably not much happening for a month or two on the employment front) and pretty slow times in the tech sector in general, I think I'd still be hard put to turn down 3 months (supposedly) guaranteed at this point. Obviously visa holders might be in a different boat as may people preferring to keep an uncertain but possibly longer-term job whatever the pain. However, given the uncertainty even for those who stay, I can't imagine not taking the payout for most.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  > Just one of the wealthiest people in history asking people to work 12 hour days every day of the week, forever, for some nebulous reasons that he can't state, just because. "a company for carrying out an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is"
  - AlexMoffat 4y ago
    Lombard Street?
slg 4y ago
And even if there is a future liquidity event, what could the return possibly be? Musk already bought Twitter at a premium over the market, then the whole market backslid, then he took control and cratered the company even further. Any equity is already a small fraction of what it would have been worth before this whole ordeal. To get any startup like return, Musk doesn't have to just right the ship, he has to make Twitter drastically more successful than it was before. Part of the deal of going "hardcore" working at a startup is that you get a small chance of becoming rich. I don't think working 80 hrs/wk is worth it when the upside is adding an extra 20% or whatever onto your salary.
- a4isms 4y ago
  Besides getting rich there is always the mission. So the question to ask Elon is... "How many people still working at Twitter hated all the woke crap like banning Nazis and were practically begging some conservative billionaire to buy the site, fire everyone, and turn it into an extremely successful free-speech Libertarian playground like Parler or Truth Social?" Those are the only people who would willingly take his offer. Almost everyone else working there now has a job mobility problem, but the moment that problem gets solved, they're out. Some businesses do just fine with employees that don't really want to work there, but they typically have enormous hiring funnels running 24/7/365 to handle the churn. Like McDonalds or Amazon's warehouses. Twitter doesn't have that, and you won;t find it at PayPal, Tesla, or SpaceX.
  - VectorLock 4y ago
    They have all the H1Bs who can't leave. So essentially Twitter just became Infosys.

a4isms 4y ago

Or to put it another way: Interviewee: "What's my upside here?" Elon: "RSUs in this illiquid private company." Interviewee: "Under what circumstances do they become liquid?" Elon: "We have to first make money above and beyond paying this crushing debt, then we have to have a growth story to sell to the public, then we go public, then you wait out the employee lockout period, and if you're still an employee, you can sell your RSUs." Interviewee: "So, like, 2-5 years of sleeping in the office to win Survivor Twitter and not get fired, plus I have to depend upon you to steer us to profitability." Elon: "Exactly. And when it comes to profitability, my favourite tactic is firing people like you."

halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
Beautifully written.