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Where are they going to get the batteries?
by rapsey 4y ago
Where are they going to get the batteries?
- LAC-Tech 4y agoFrom jurisdictions that are on their way to 100% clean energy!
- danans 4y agoThey won't use batteries (in the sense of Lithium batteries). They will use other storage technologies that trade off the round-trip efficiency and density of Lithium batteries for much lower cost per unit storage. There are a number of serious contenders, including metal-air and compressed gas, and also direct heat storage.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y agoaka technology which exists on paper, maybe in one prototype sample.
- ben_w 4y agoStorage heaters came with the flat I own back in the UK, which dates back to the late 80s or early 90s. Not even vaguely new. A quick search says the tech dates to 1940s.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y agoI did not know that my computer is running on heat.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ben_w 4y agoEvery non-renewable power source involves a heat engine. But I replied to you because you snarkily dismissed someone suggesting direct heat storage.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y agoBecause if heat storage would be making sense, it would be implemented. Iy is not, because it is not working.
- danans 4y ago> Every non-renewable power source involves a heat engine. Even some renewable power sources like wind involve a "heat engine" in the sense that they exploit a temperature differential driving a working fluid (AKA wind) to spin a turbine.
- danans 4y agoHere is a Swedish company making a heat storage system that outputs electricity using a Stirling Engine. They claim 165kWh electrical storage capacity. https://www.azelio.com/the-solution/technology/ https://www.azelio.com/the-solution/technology/
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoThey are literally proposing using lithium batteries with no big tech breakthroughs at grid scale. If you have other storage sources, like EVs or home batteries, or some magical new tech becomes available, it'll be cheaper, but if you don't they suggest you can do it with lithium-ion and the renewable tech as it stands today, with price reductions coming from scale.
- danans 4y ago> but if you don't they suggest you can do it with lithium-ion and the renewable tech as it stands today, with price reductions coming from scale. LiIon batteries are only economical today for the most valuable grid ancillary services, like frequency regulation, where they shine because of their fast response time. For day to week scale time-shifting of energy, we need something 10x cheaper. If LiIon batteries can achieve that kind of price reduction then great, but the price trend with LiIon has started to level out after getting 10x cheaper over the last 10 years. https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/12/battery-prices-have-fallen-88-percent-over-the-last-decade/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/12/battery-prices-have-...
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoThe group that is doing this report suggests batteries reduced by 83% in the last decade and will reduce by a further 80% in the next decade: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM2RxWtF4Ds&t=137s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM2RxWtF4Ds&t=137s They predict similar for wind and solar, and notably they correctly predicted the price drop of solar 10 years ago till today. Which seemed a crazy thing to suggest 10 years ago.
- ben_w 4y ago> LiIon batteries are only economical today for the most valuable grid ancillary services, like frequency regulation, where they shine because of their fast response time. Not so; for cost, LiIon+PV can already beat nuclear for the same use cases in most places, what we have not yet done is build the mines and the factories to scale all the way up to this. Nuclear is the easy bar to pass, and while this report says we can beat all fossil fuels on price this way, I'm willing to doubt that for the sake of arguing against this claim in this instance.