5 ms·

> My girlfriend was led out into the street barefoot and only in her underwear in full view of our neighbors; I was led outside, handcuffed and only in t-shirt

by prirun 4y ago

> My girlfriend was led out into the street barefoot and only in her underwear in full view of our neighbors; I was led outside, handcuffed and only in t-shirt and sweats in sub-freezing temperatures. > Each home was searched by 15-20 agents in full riot gear, causing further damage in both homes besides the broken front doors > I was very surprised how forceful the search warrant was executed and how rough we, both unarmed senior citizens, were treated. > Even my phone was taken, leaving me in Rachel with two broken doors and no way to communicate or call for help. I don't care what the hell he did, this kind of abuse is not acceptable. It's no wonder Americans have lost respect for law enforcement: the people enforcing the law are often committing worse crimes than the supposed criminals. Taking his electronic shit I get. But not letting the poor woman get dressed? That's just a bunch of thugs having a playday with their toys.

millzlane 4y ago
My house has been raided multiple times by local police (Victim of a senseless drug war). They have never let me get dressed. I have always assumed it was a safety issue. How do they know, I'm going to actually get dressed and not pull out a firearm or push a hidden button to blow us all up. Not excusing their actions, but this seems to be the norm.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- airstrike 4y ago
  Maybe they can grab your clothes for you from your closet? Surely there's got to be some creative way to allow a human to get dressed And if said human is like the Riddler and has rigged the place to blow should the wrong t-shirt be picked up, well then that's called the risk of being a law enforcement field agent... it's in the job description
  - cyberlurker 4y ago
    At marathons they have those solar blankets. Law enforcement could easily provide clothing or blankets for those being raided. Everyone deserves dignity imo, even potentially guilty people. No risk involved.
    - airstrike 4y ago
      That would solve the problem of feeling cold but not the human dignity issue in someone being arrested (and possibly being brought in for questioning) in their underwear
- tpl 4y ago
  Then they should guard you while you get dressed. The risk of getting shot is rather low for most cases and people deserve dignity. They are only accused of a crime not guilty.
  - johncessna 4y ago
    No. As a citizen, I don't want some cop jumpy on fear and adrenaline holding me at gun point waiting to see if I'm going to pull a snub nose out of my jeans pocket. As a cop, I don't want to find out if someone putting on their pants is going to shot me or my partner in that split second when they appear to lose balance and fall into the night stand that has a gun under the pile of clothes.
    - omniglottal 4y ago
      As a citizen, I recognize cops are already twitchy and jumpy anyway, and they kill more people in the US than there are murders. Maybe your boundless excuse for ever-increasing excessive behavior is really no excuse. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a basis we simply cannot lose. It means something. Once it stops meaning treatment of citizens with dignity, I don't know how you can expect that citizens won't retaliate and escalate the situation. Most now fear cops unjustly invading their home more than criminals. They, though innocent, will defend tgeirself against assault. Do the math.
      - Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
        >and they kill more people in the US than there are murders Do you have any source for this absurd claim? The data show otherwise: >In 2019, the estimated number of murders in the nation was 16,425.[0] and police was about 1,000 for the same year.[1] [0]https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/murder https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-... [1]https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de...
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  Aka a drug dealer?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- giantg2 4y ago
  The very simple and common sense approach is that they provide you with a bath robe, medical gown, etc, all without even uncuffing you.
- idontpost 4y ago
nibbleshifter 4y ago
This is unfortunately pretty standard police practice.
- Oddskar 4y ago
  In the US, maybe. Not so much in Europe.
  - nibbleshifter 4y ago
    People I know in Western European countries have suffered the exact same indignities at the hands of the police.
- LouisSayers 4y ago
  ... in the USA. There are many countries in the world where police wouldn't treat you this way. US police are basically an extremist group.
  - nibbleshifter 4y ago
    Its in no way unique to the US. I know folks round here who have been treated exactly the same.
- idontpost 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
wnevets 4y ago
> I don't care what the hell he did, this kind of abuse is not acceptable. It's no wonder Americans have lost respect for law enforcement: the people enforcing the law are often committing worse crimes than the supposed criminals. You are going to be very upset when you find out what police have done to citizens while they were sleeping in their homes. [1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html
- nadieyninguno1 4y ago
  Sadly for Breonna, her boyfriend opened fire on the police and she was killed in a crossfire... tragic outcome but not the height of police brutality - there ought to be better examples? If one wanted to stick with a police-on-minority action, the Fred Hampton case is a real helluva situation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton
  - wnevets 4y ago
    No, the boyfriend was defending his home by exercising his second amendment rights against unannounced intruders
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      Yep. Those intruders happened to be criminals, incidentally. They falsified the warrant, then tried to cover that up. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/former-louisville-detective-plead-guilty-breonna-taylor-cover-rcna44352 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/former-louisville-detect...
      - nadieyninguno1 4y ago
        Most officers involved were NOT criminals, have not been charged, have not been prosecuted. Please avoid extremist talking points that avoid and obscure the truth, this is a site for discussion.
    - 4y ago
schmorptron 4y ago
I think one way to start addressing this would be to increase the payouts people receive for abusive police behavior and have those payouts taken directly out of the police pension fund instead of normal taxpayer money.
- giantg2 4y ago
  Increase the payout? You'd have to start the payout. There's virtually zero chance of them paying for those doors. They can burn your house down with tear gas, and not pay for shit, even if you're innocent.
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    Are you sure US police services don't payout for property damage at all? Not even when they made a mistake?
    - giantg2 4y ago
      If they made a mistake like hitting the wrong address, they sometimes will. Even then, it generally requires getting a lawyer as they typically won't offer to pay up. If it was the right address but you were innocent, they generally don't.
      - MichaelZuo 4y ago
        That sounds like low hanging fruit. Fixing that would increase mutual trust.
- omniglottal 4y ago
  Take it from the guilty cop's retirement fund and give them desk duty while their non-abusive colleagues are not punished. Never assume a problem is solved when you treat individuals the same based on statistics.
  - schmorptron 4y ago
Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
That's not how it works sadly, you can't just commit crimes and then just expect some sort of room service from law enforcement: "Just let me get dressed" pulls gun from the dresser Police shouldn't have to risk their life for this kind of thing >the people enforcing the law are often committing worse crimes than the supposed criminals. Source? >In 2019, the estimated number of murders in the nation was 16,425.[0] How many tens of thousands of innocent people did police kill that year? [0]https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/murder https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...
- BeefySwain 4y ago
  > you can't just commit crimes Are people whose houses are raided typically convicted ahead of time?
  - Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
    No, but they are typically armed. SWAT teams have strict protocols to avoid death on both sides. These "what if" questions posed by armchair SWAT commanders don't translate into the real world. Things like "just try to shoot him in the leg" and "what if she's naked" just increase bloodshed. In a life and death situation, the only consideration that's actually important is if the suspect is armed. The more conditional protocols you add, the more times something will go wrong. We don't trade lives for clothing: that isn't and can't be how it works. A simplified version of the protocol is: is he armed? If not don't shoot. If yes is his back facing you? If yes don't shoot. It get's more complicated when you consider hostages, the suspects mental health, bystanders ect. "Is he naked" has no room in the protocol. Focus is extreamly important and something tangetial to life and death can't be part of the consideration.
- tastyfreeze 4y ago
  At least look up the stats if you are going to perpetuate the evil police narrative. There were 1020 fatal police shootings in 2020. https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de...
rantingdemon 4y ago
I suppose, thinking about how the world has changed in the last couple of decades, we have to reconsider your rights to have access to your electronic data. I cannot make any payments, read any emails, access any data, etc, without my phone or tablet that has a 2FA app. Yes, I do have offline backups. I _should_ be able to recover my data, but should it be so hard? Millions of people don't think about this, and are at risk.

by prirun 4y ago

millzlane 4y ago

My house has been raided multiple times by local police (Victim of a senseless drug war). They have never let me get dressed. I have always assumed it was a safety issue. How do they know, I'm going to actually get dressed and not pull out a firearm or push a hidden button to blow us all up. Not excusing their actions, but this seems to be the norm.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
airstrike 4y ago
Maybe they can grab your clothes for you from your closet? Surely there's got to be some creative way to allow a human to get dressed And if said human is like the Riddler and has rigged the place to blow should the wrong t-shirt be picked up, well then that's called the risk of being a law enforcement field agent... it's in the job description
- cyberlurker 4y ago
  At marathons they have those solar blankets. Law enforcement could easily provide clothing or blankets for those being raided. Everyone deserves dignity imo, even potentially guilty people. No risk involved.
  - airstrike 4y ago
    That would solve the problem of feeling cold but not the human dignity issue in someone being arrested (and possibly being brought in for questioning) in their underwear
tpl 4y ago
Then they should guard you while you get dressed. The risk of getting shot is rather low for most cases and people deserve dignity. They are only accused of a crime not guilty.
- johncessna 4y ago
  No. As a citizen, I don't want some cop jumpy on fear and adrenaline holding me at gun point waiting to see if I'm going to pull a snub nose out of my jeans pocket. As a cop, I don't want to find out if someone putting on their pants is going to shot me or my partner in that split second when they appear to lose balance and fall into the night stand that has a gun under the pile of clothes.
  - omniglottal 4y ago
    As a citizen, I recognize cops are already twitchy and jumpy anyway, and they kill more people in the US than there are murders. Maybe your boundless excuse for ever-increasing excessive behavior is really no excuse. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a basis we simply cannot lose. It means something. Once it stops meaning treatment of citizens with dignity, I don't know how you can expect that citizens won't retaliate and escalate the situation. Most now fear cops unjustly invading their home more than criminals. They, though innocent, will defend tgeirself against assault. Do the math.
    - Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
      >and they kill more people in the US than there are murders Do you have any source for this absurd claim? The data show otherwise: >In 2019, the estimated number of murders in the nation was 16,425.[0] and police was about 1,000 for the same year.[1] [0]https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/murder https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-... [1]https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de...
throwawaysleep 4y ago
Aka a drug dealer?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
giantg2 4y ago
The very simple and common sense approach is that they provide you with a bath robe, medical gown, etc, all without even uncuffing you.
idontpost 4y ago

nibbleshifter 4y ago

This is unfortunately pretty standard police practice.

Oddskar 4y ago
In the US, maybe. Not so much in Europe.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  People I know in Western European countries have suffered the exact same indignities at the hands of the police.
LouisSayers 4y ago
... in the USA. There are many countries in the world where police wouldn't treat you this way. US police are basically an extremist group.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  Its in no way unique to the US. I know folks round here who have been treated exactly the same.
idontpost 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

wnevets 4y ago

> I don't care what the hell he did, this kind of abuse is not acceptable. It's no wonder Americans have lost respect for law enforcement: the people enforcing the law are often committing worse crimes than the supposed criminals. You are going to be very upset when you find out what police have done to citizens while they were sleeping in their homes. [1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html

nadieyninguno1 4y ago
Sadly for Breonna, her boyfriend opened fire on the police and she was killed in a crossfire... tragic outcome but not the height of police brutality - there ought to be better examples? If one wanted to stick with a police-on-minority action, the Fred Hampton case is a real helluva situation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton
- wnevets 4y ago
  No, the boyfriend was defending his home by exercising his second amendment rights against unannounced intruders
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Yep. Those intruders happened to be criminals, incidentally. They falsified the warrant, then tried to cover that up. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/former-louisville-detective-plead-guilty-breonna-taylor-cover-rcna44352 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/former-louisville-detect...
    - nadieyninguno1 4y ago
      Most officers involved were NOT criminals, have not been charged, have not been prosecuted. Please avoid extremist talking points that avoid and obscure the truth, this is a site for discussion.
  - 4y ago

schmorptron 4y ago

I think one way to start addressing this would be to increase the payouts people receive for abusive police behavior and have those payouts taken directly out of the police pension fund instead of normal taxpayer money.

giantg2 4y ago
Increase the payout? You'd have to start the payout. There's virtually zero chance of them paying for those doors. They can burn your house down with tear gas, and not pay for shit, even if you're innocent.
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
  Are you sure US police services don't payout for property damage at all? Not even when they made a mistake?
  - giantg2 4y ago
    If they made a mistake like hitting the wrong address, they sometimes will. Even then, it generally requires getting a lawyer as they typically won't offer to pay up. If it was the right address but you were innocent, they generally don't.
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      That sounds like low hanging fruit. Fixing that would increase mutual trust.
omniglottal 4y ago
Take it from the guilty cop's retirement fund and give them desk duty while their non-abusive colleagues are not punished. Never assume a problem is solved when you treat individuals the same based on statistics.
- schmorptron 4y ago

Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago

That's not how it works sadly, you can't just commit crimes and then just expect some sort of room service from law enforcement: "Just let me get dressed" pulls gun from the dresser Police shouldn't have to risk their life for this kind of thing >the people enforcing the law are often committing worse crimes than the supposed criminals. Source? >In 2019, the estimated number of murders in the nation was 16,425.[0] How many tens of thousands of innocent people did police kill that year? [0]https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/murder https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

BeefySwain 4y ago
> you can't just commit crimes Are people whose houses are raided typically convicted ahead of time?
- Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
  No, but they are typically armed. SWAT teams have strict protocols to avoid death on both sides. These "what if" questions posed by armchair SWAT commanders don't translate into the real world. Things like "just try to shoot him in the leg" and "what if she's naked" just increase bloodshed. In a life and death situation, the only consideration that's actually important is if the suspect is armed. The more conditional protocols you add, the more times something will go wrong. We don't trade lives for clothing: that isn't and can't be how it works. A simplified version of the protocol is: is he armed? If not don't shoot. If yes is his back facing you? If yes don't shoot. It get's more complicated when you consider hostages, the suspects mental health, bystanders ect. "Is he naked" has no room in the protocol. Focus is extreamly important and something tangetial to life and death can't be part of the consideration.
tastyfreeze 4y ago
At least look up the stats if you are going to perpetuate the evil police narrative. There were 1020 fatal police shootings in 2020. https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de...

rantingdemon 4y ago

I suppose, thinking about how the world has changed in the last couple of decades, we have to reconsider your rights to have access to your electronic data. I cannot make any payments, read any emails, access any data, etc, without my phone or tablet that has a 2FA app. Yes, I do have offline backups. I _should_ be able to recover my data, but should it be so hard? Millions of people don't think about this, and are at risk.