3 ms·

Here's how I see it: Crypto as an investment - Not your keys, not your coin. Crypto as a currency - I can't directly buy food, water, shelter, transportation,

by 1970-01-01 4y ago

Here's how I see it: Crypto as an investment - Not your keys, not your coin. Crypto as a currency - I can't directly buy food, water, shelter, transportation, energy, or anything fundamental with it. I know acceptance is growing, but 10+ years later, crypto still has extremely limited acceptance for daily goods and services. It is almost exclusively held as an investment.

ignoramous 4y ago
> Crypto as a currency - I can't directly buy food, water, shelter, transportation, energy, or anything fundamental with it. Cryptocurrency payments is a flourishing market, btw.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Where? I don't mean this as snark. Are there any household brands that actually accept crpyto?
  - livueta 4y ago
    I think household brands are the exact opposite of where there's been movement: ime, it's concentrated in spaces where there's a need or incentive to dodge moralistic payment processing cartels. The classic example is obviously DNMs, but it is expanding into areas that are legal but difficult to process payments for, like firearm parts or porn. Since those payment processors are, if anything, getting more opinionated, I bet that trend will continue, along with the "I personally disapprove of or do not require the utility provided by the technology, so I will claim it has no utility at all" arguments.
stephc_int13 4y ago
This is not an investment because there is no asset behind it. (no production) It is a speculative vehicle.
- cynusx 4y ago
  It's an abstraction of the stock market imo. People who bought and sold stocks also never understood there was something of value beneath it and just look for "is it going to go up?" and "why is it down?"
- philippejara 4y ago
  The rights to Mickey Mouse are about as productionless as any crypto, and I'd struggle to find anyone that doesn't think it would be a great investment.
  - seizethegdgap 4y ago
    Well, the Steamboat Willie version of Mickey Mouse will be entering public domain soon.
  - rhino369 4y ago
    Disney makes Mickey Mouse cartoons and uses it as branding. It doesn't have value just because Disney thinks it could sell the rights for more later. In fact, they don't ever want to sell it.
redox99 4y ago
> Crypto as a currency - I can't directly buy food, water, shelter, transportation, energy, or anything fundamental with it. Not surprising, considering the technology isn't there yet. Scalability (and thus fees) are still unsolved. UX has so much to improve as well. It's advancing, but it takes time.
algoatecorn 4y ago
>I know acceptance is growing, but 10+ years later, crypto still has extremely limited acceptance for daily goods and services. It is almost exclusively held as an investment. Which makes sense considering its volatility. Why would I make transactions with a unit of currency that sees hundreds of percentage change over just a few years? And as others say, there is no real value to it other than speculation. This gets argued to death, but it's true. At least fiat has stability, and the USD is used to settle basically all energy (and most commodity) transactions. Do people actually expect the commodity market to be settled with crypto in the future?
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > Why would I make transactions with a unit of currency that sees hundreds of percentage change over just a few years? Why wouldn't I? If I'm going to hold bitcoin for five minutes, what do I care how its price changes over years? The problem with bitcoin is that the technology is shit, and sucks for transactions, unless the world is prepared to only do like 50 transactions a minute.
  - algoatecorn 4y ago
    That's only considering the scenario of end-user purchasing and also not considering resale. Goods go through supply chains. Multiple transactions occur over a period of time in order to create a final good. Service industries need to supply themselves with various goods in order to provide their services. The cost of those goods are used to price their services. When there is huge volatility through these processes, things fall apart.
ptudan 4y ago
I work for a crypto payments firm We're getting there and you can already use our product at 50k+ stores in the US. Even in this market, merchants are still interested. We launched new ones this week. Comparing us to Visa or Paypal we are rinky dinky af, no denying that. But we are definitely growing. Your lens of investment vs currency is also very US based. Consider countries that frequently experience huge rates of inflation. Non-fiat money can be valuable for them.
- solumos 4y ago
  I also work for a crypto payments firm There's a lot of interest in taking crypto payments mainstream, but large, established institutions are unwilling to expose themselves to the regulatory risk they would take on by building this stuff. A lot of these folks express extreme skepticism in the media, but are super willing to talk/partner in private.
mxschumacher 4y ago
is acceptance growing? I feel like I used to have the option of paying with Bitcoin more often a few years ago.

ignoramous 4y ago

> Crypto as a currency - I can't directly buy food, water, shelter, transportation, energy, or anything fundamental with it. Cryptocurrency payments is a flourishing market, btw.

Spivak 4y ago
Where? I don't mean this as snark. Are there any household brands that actually accept crpyto?
- livueta 4y ago
  I think household brands are the exact opposite of where there's been movement: ime, it's concentrated in spaces where there's a need or incentive to dodge moralistic payment processing cartels. The classic example is obviously DNMs, but it is expanding into areas that are legal but difficult to process payments for, like firearm parts or porn. Since those payment processors are, if anything, getting more opinionated, I bet that trend will continue, along with the "I personally disapprove of or do not require the utility provided by the technology, so I will claim it has no utility at all" arguments.

stephc_int13 4y ago

This is not an investment because there is no asset behind it. (no production) It is a speculative vehicle.

cynusx 4y ago
It's an abstraction of the stock market imo. People who bought and sold stocks also never understood there was something of value beneath it and just look for "is it going to go up?" and "why is it down?"
philippejara 4y ago
The rights to Mickey Mouse are about as productionless as any crypto, and I'd struggle to find anyone that doesn't think it would be a great investment.
- seizethegdgap 4y ago
  Well, the Steamboat Willie version of Mickey Mouse will be entering public domain soon.
- rhino369 4y ago
  Disney makes Mickey Mouse cartoons and uses it as branding. It doesn't have value just because Disney thinks it could sell the rights for more later. In fact, they don't ever want to sell it.

redox99 4y ago

> Crypto as a currency - I can't directly buy food, water, shelter, transportation, energy, or anything fundamental with it. Not surprising, considering the technology isn't there yet. Scalability (and thus fees) are still unsolved. UX has so much to improve as well. It's advancing, but it takes time.

algoatecorn 4y ago

>I know acceptance is growing, but 10+ years later, crypto still has extremely limited acceptance for daily goods and services. It is almost exclusively held as an investment. Which makes sense considering its volatility. Why would I make transactions with a unit of currency that sees hundreds of percentage change over just a few years? And as others say, there is no real value to it other than speculation. This gets argued to death, but it's true. At least fiat has stability, and the USD is used to settle basically all energy (and most commodity) transactions. Do people actually expect the commodity market to be settled with crypto in the future?

pessimizer 4y ago
> Why would I make transactions with a unit of currency that sees hundreds of percentage change over just a few years? Why wouldn't I? If I'm going to hold bitcoin for five minutes, what do I care how its price changes over years? The problem with bitcoin is that the technology is shit, and sucks for transactions, unless the world is prepared to only do like 50 transactions a minute.
- algoatecorn 4y ago
  That's only considering the scenario of end-user purchasing and also not considering resale. Goods go through supply chains. Multiple transactions occur over a period of time in order to create a final good. Service industries need to supply themselves with various goods in order to provide their services. The cost of those goods are used to price their services. When there is huge volatility through these processes, things fall apart.

ptudan 4y ago

I work for a crypto payments firm We're getting there and you can already use our product at 50k+ stores in the US. Even in this market, merchants are still interested. We launched new ones this week. Comparing us to Visa or Paypal we are rinky dinky af, no denying that. But we are definitely growing. Your lens of investment vs currency is also very US based. Consider countries that frequently experience huge rates of inflation. Non-fiat money can be valuable for them.

solumos 4y ago
I also work for a crypto payments firm There's a lot of interest in taking crypto payments mainstream, but large, established institutions are unwilling to expose themselves to the regulatory risk they would take on by building this stuff. A lot of these folks express extreme skepticism in the media, but are super willing to talk/partner in private.

mxschumacher 4y ago

is acceptance growing? I feel like I used to have the option of paying with Bitcoin more often a few years ago.