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I am sure this were joint Air Force and FBI raids, but the optics of the phrase "U.S. Air Force and FBI recently raided homes ..." is really not that great. May

by balozi 4y ago

I am sure this were joint Air Force and FBI raids, but the optics of the phrase "U.S. Air Force and FBI recently raided homes ..." is really not that great. Maybe just me, but few want to hear of the Air Force raiding homes in America. They should really leave the domestic law enforcement to the FBI, both literary and in public perception.

alexb_ 4y ago
The Air Force has it's own investigation body called OSI (Office of Special Investigations) - that's what they are referring to here.
- nonameiguess 4y ago
  For what it's worth, every branch of the military has its own criminal investigative arm, as well as its own security. While the vast bulk of this is limited to jurisdiction on military installations, they can't help but venture out sometimes. My wife used to work as part of a classified Naval air unit working on experimental radar, for instance, and they couldn't do everything on a Naval base. Every now and again, some people wearing AT&T coveralls or something that got too close would be kindly apprehended and escorted somewhere else by unmarked black SUVs that were part of NCIS. But what else are they supposed to do? The local police aren't cleared to know what's being guarded, either. They'd get apprehended and have their phones wiped, too.
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    Acting like glorified security guards than actively running investigations and kicking in doors.
- tyingq 4y ago
  The question, though, is to what degree they would be allowed to meddle with civilians. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    That question is answered in the article; they'll be on an advisory/support role under the Military Cooperation with Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies Act, with the FBI responsible for the raid itself.
    - tyingq 4y ago
      That doesn't resolve, for me, that they aren't "directly involved" in a "search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity". Were they at the raid?
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        They can be at the raid. They can't run the raid. I'm sure lines get blurred on this front at times, but the FBI is entirely capable of running a raid on their own; they may be less capable of the "is this the classified document y'all were looking for?" confirmation that needs to come from the Air Force.
        tyingq 4y ago
        Your example of "is this the classified document" sounds reasonable. That's not how either the headline or article reads, though.
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        The article doesn't read in either direction; it's not that specific. Quotes like "The FBI had not returned his phone calls, he added" would seem to indicate he's primarily dealing with the FBI, as is proper.
        tyingq 4y ago
        "Agents from the U.S. Air Force and FBI recently raided homes" "The Air Force Office of Special Investigations and FBI entered homes owned by Joerg Arnu in Las Vegas" "seized potential evidence for an undisclosed joint agency probe" Note, for example, the U.S. Army isn't allowed to do things like direct vehicle traffic around a house that's being raided. Being consulted on the side about specific items to look for, etc, that's much less direct than the quotes above.
HWR_14 4y ago
Domestic law enforcement is left to the FBI. Posse comitatus makes the military doing it illegal without some serious political situation - think Congress allowing it or a governor requesting the National Guard. I'd imagine the situation is either "the USAF was involved in tracking down a crime was committed on an Air Force Base" or, more likely, the real headline is "the FBI, with Air Force personnel in attendance as advisors, kicked in the door"
deleted 4y ago
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by balozi 4y ago

alexb_ 4y ago

The Air Force has it's own investigation body called OSI (Office of Special Investigations) - that's what they are referring to here.

nonameiguess 4y ago
For what it's worth, every branch of the military has its own criminal investigative arm, as well as its own security. While the vast bulk of this is limited to jurisdiction on military installations, they can't help but venture out sometimes. My wife used to work as part of a classified Naval air unit working on experimental radar, for instance, and they couldn't do everything on a Naval base. Every now and again, some people wearing AT&T coveralls or something that got too close would be kindly apprehended and escorted somewhere else by unmarked black SUVs that were part of NCIS. But what else are they supposed to do? The local police aren't cleared to know what's being guarded, either. They'd get apprehended and have their phones wiped, too.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  Acting like glorified security guards than actively running investigations and kicking in doors.
tyingq 4y ago
The question, though, is to what degree they would be allowed to meddle with civilians. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  That question is answered in the article; they'll be on an advisory/support role under the Military Cooperation with Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies Act, with the FBI responsible for the raid itself.
  - tyingq 4y ago
    That doesn't resolve, for me, that they aren't "directly involved" in a "search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity". Were they at the raid?
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      They can be at the raid. They can't run the raid. I'm sure lines get blurred on this front at times, but the FBI is entirely capable of running a raid on their own; they may be less capable of the "is this the classified document y'all were looking for?" confirmation that needs to come from the Air Force.
      - tyingq 4y ago
        Your example of "is this the classified document" sounds reasonable. That's not how either the headline or article reads, though.
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        The article doesn't read in either direction; it's not that specific. Quotes like "The FBI had not returned his phone calls, he added" would seem to indicate he's primarily dealing with the FBI, as is proper.
        tyingq 4y ago
        "Agents from the U.S. Air Force and FBI recently raided homes" "The Air Force Office of Special Investigations and FBI entered homes owned by Joerg Arnu in Las Vegas" "seized potential evidence for an undisclosed joint agency probe" Note, for example, the U.S. Army isn't allowed to do things like direct vehicle traffic around a house that's being raided. Being consulted on the side about specific items to look for, etc, that's much less direct than the quotes above.

HWR_14 4y ago

Domestic law enforcement is left to the FBI. Posse comitatus makes the military doing it illegal without some serious political situation - think Congress allowing it or a governor requesting the National Guard. I'd imagine the situation is either "the USAF was involved in tracking down a crime was committed on an Air Force Base" or, more likely, the real headline is "the FBI, with Air Force personnel in attendance as advisors, kicked in the door"

deleted 4y ago

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