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Maybe the problem is that it's called "Computer Science"? I've always imagined that Computer Science and Software Engineering should be distinct programs at the

Maybe the problem is that it's called "Computer Science"? I've always imagined that Computer Science and Software Engineering should be distinct programs at the university level.

solardev 4y ago
I'd rather it be a certificate or a community college series. Basically a vetted and accredited bootcamp. It's nice that software engineering is one of the very few middle class careers that doesn't require the elitism of higher ed. Let's not make it that way...
- ehutch79 4y ago
  No, you would need a history of computing, which could also be called 'all the shit we tried before and abandoned, and why we laugh at that guy on reddit who thinks he just invented it' I doubt bootcamps or certificate courses go over anything like that. half of a software engineering degree needs to be stuff like that. also soft skills like writing documentation.
  - solardev 4y ago
    Focus on documentation (and readability, and comments, etc.) would definitely be nice. As for "history of computing", I don't know, is it really that helpful to know that all the algorithms were invented by really smart people a few decades ago and then reinvented again and again in modern frameworks? I just assume that whatever I learn this year is going to obsolete by next year lol (web dev, sigh). On the other hand, a "how to decide if you should reinvent the wheel" course would be super helpful.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
  How do you feel about the other types of engineering. Do they "require the elitism of higher ed?"
  - solardev 4y ago
    I don't know enough about other types of engineering to comment on that? Programming can be engineering but isn't always. Web dev for example, especially frontend, mostly seems like a mountain of hacks... :shrug: In this instance, I think skills-based certifications & testing would be far more accurate, useful, and fair than requiring a college degree. At my current workplace, some of the software "engineers" there get paid less than me, even though they're better programmers, just because I have a 4-year college degree (in a completely unrelated field). It's a stupid requirement. I think some of the old-guard companies still equate "college" with "intellectual capacity & ability to follow instructions for four years". The former is better measured in other ways now and the latter isn't really a key trait of good programmers, unless you're a code mill hiring silent code monkeys.
- throwaway675309 4y ago
  And yet without any kind of rigorous scholastic requirements any Tom Dick and Harry can take a six week code camp course, and more and more companies have to do leet code style interviews because they can't trust the competency of their applicants.
AnimalMuppet 4y ago
Worse, 95% of those who graduate with CS degrees are going to work as software engineers, not computer scientists. And I suspect that most CS degrees aren't actually aimed at preparing them for that.

Maybe the problem is that it's called "Computer Science"? I've always imagined that Computer Science and Software Engineering should be distinct programs at the university level.

solardev 4y ago

I'd rather it be a certificate or a community college series. Basically a vetted and accredited bootcamp. It's nice that software engineering is one of the very few middle class careers that doesn't require the elitism of higher ed. Let's not make it that way...

ehutch79 4y ago
No, you would need a history of computing, which could also be called 'all the shit we tried before and abandoned, and why we laugh at that guy on reddit who thinks he just invented it' I doubt bootcamps or certificate courses go over anything like that. half of a software engineering degree needs to be stuff like that. also soft skills like writing documentation.
- solardev 4y ago
  Focus on documentation (and readability, and comments, etc.) would definitely be nice. As for "history of computing", I don't know, is it really that helpful to know that all the algorithms were invented by really smart people a few decades ago and then reinvented again and again in modern frameworks? I just assume that whatever I learn this year is going to obsolete by next year lol (web dev, sigh). On the other hand, a "how to decide if you should reinvent the wheel" course would be super helpful.
HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
How do you feel about the other types of engineering. Do they "require the elitism of higher ed?"
- solardev 4y ago
  I don't know enough about other types of engineering to comment on that? Programming can be engineering but isn't always. Web dev for example, especially frontend, mostly seems like a mountain of hacks... :shrug: In this instance, I think skills-based certifications & testing would be far more accurate, useful, and fair than requiring a college degree. At my current workplace, some of the software "engineers" there get paid less than me, even though they're better programmers, just because I have a 4-year college degree (in a completely unrelated field). It's a stupid requirement. I think some of the old-guard companies still equate "college" with "intellectual capacity & ability to follow instructions for four years". The former is better measured in other ways now and the latter isn't really a key trait of good programmers, unless you're a code mill hiring silent code monkeys.
throwaway675309 4y ago
And yet without any kind of rigorous scholastic requirements any Tom Dick and Harry can take a six week code camp course, and more and more companies have to do leet code style interviews because they can't trust the competency of their applicants.

AnimalMuppet 4y ago

Worse, 95% of those who graduate with CS degrees are going to work as software engineers, not computer scientists. And I suspect that most CS degrees aren't actually aimed at preparing them for that.