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Translating Finnish poetry/lyrics into a more analytic language like Swedish or English is torturous. All the little helper words just feel so clunky. And they

Translating Finnish poetry/lyrics into a more analytic language like Swedish or English is torturous. All the little helper words just feel so clunky. And they used to say Finnish wasn't fit for poetry.

euroderf 4y ago
Well, it's got a higher vowel density than even italian, so it's fit for opera.
- soundnote 4y ago
  Please no, opera sounds awful.
- vintermann 4y ago
  Finnish has long and short consonants as well as long and short vowels. I imagine that can lead to a few "grass mud horse" incidents in song.
  - soundnote 4y ago
    Using both long vowels and doubled consonants freely is one of the big problems foreigners often have with Finnish.
zasdffaa 4y ago
Is it, or is it that you aren't a professional poet? (no offence[1]). I imagine a poet trying to program something non-trivial and wondering how the IT guys get it just flowing off their fingers. Poetry done well takes skill, time and experience which maybe you don't have yet. The pros do something I love and it seems like magic the way it comes out, but then, they do a very different job Green upon the flooded Avon shone the after-storm-wet-sky Quick the struggling withy branches let the leaves of Autumn fly And a star shone over Bristol, wonderfully far and high. - John Betjeman rest at http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/bristol/hi/people_and_places/arts_and_culture/newsid_8118000/8118365.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/bristol/hi/people_and_places/art... [1] maybe you are?
- soundnote 4y ago
  CS degree, work in manufacturing, interested in linguistics. You can judge my skill here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33640260 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33640260 It may not be professional, but I don't think it'll be found wanting for much. Note, though: I said translating things from an agglutinative language with very free word order into a more analytical one with restricted word order is torturous, not that you can't write good poetry in English. Merely that the translation itself is really, really hard because of the format differences.
  - zasdffaa 4y ago
    I'm going to be really brief here and careful also as I'm in no place to critique or even comment being a monoglot non-poet, so take this as intended... English word order and general form can be messed with and twisted perhaps more than you think, even if it will never be another language. Look at the Graves poem here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pararhyme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pararhyme I can't take a better shot at what you've written in your other comment because I can't get a whole picture of what it's trying to say, it seems a rush of images rather than a scene, but as one image that makes sense (gold corrupting, I think) I bowed to gold, bowing to gold I grasped at the netherworld then I bow low to gold, and bowing, seize the underworld Or perhaps not. Anyway that's too much from me already. I probably deserve the coming downvote.

euroderf 4y ago

Well, it's got a higher vowel density than even italian, so it's fit for opera.

soundnote 4y ago
Please no, opera sounds awful.
vintermann 4y ago
Finnish has long and short consonants as well as long and short vowels. I imagine that can lead to a few "grass mud horse" incidents in song.
- soundnote 4y ago
  Using both long vowels and doubled consonants freely is one of the big problems foreigners often have with Finnish.

zasdffaa 4y ago

Is it, or is it that you aren't a professional poet? (no offence[1]). I imagine a poet trying to program something non-trivial and wondering how the IT guys get it just flowing off their fingers. Poetry done well takes skill, time and experience which maybe you don't have yet. The pros do something I love and it seems like magic the way it comes out, but then, they do a very different job Green upon the flooded Avon shone the after-storm-wet-sky Quick the struggling withy branches let the leaves of Autumn fly And a star shone over Bristol, wonderfully far and high. - John Betjeman rest at http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/bristol/hi/people_and_places/arts_and_culture/newsid_8118000/8118365.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/bristol/hi/people_and_places/art... [1] maybe you are?

soundnote 4y ago
CS degree, work in manufacturing, interested in linguistics. You can judge my skill here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33640260 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33640260 It may not be professional, but I don't think it'll be found wanting for much. Note, though: I said translating things from an agglutinative language with very free word order into a more analytical one with restricted word order is torturous, not that you can't write good poetry in English. Merely that the translation itself is really, really hard because of the format differences.
- zasdffaa 4y ago
  I'm going to be really brief here and careful also as I'm in no place to critique or even comment being a monoglot non-poet, so take this as intended... English word order and general form can be messed with and twisted perhaps more than you think, even if it will never be another language. Look at the Graves poem here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pararhyme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pararhyme I can't take a better shot at what you've written in your other comment because I can't get a whole picture of what it's trying to say, it seems a rush of images rather than a scene, but as one image that makes sense (gold corrupting, I think) I bowed to gold, bowing to gold I grasped at the netherworld then I bow low to gold, and bowing, seize the underworld Or perhaps not. Anyway that's too much from me already. I probably deserve the coming downvote.